Looking for Brand New 3 GPF and Above Toilet

[Criminal]

Hi!

I am currently at the planning stage of constructing my custom home and I am wanting high-flow toilets between the ranges of 3 and 4 gallons per flush. I understand I can have them imported from Canada (used) and salvage yards but I am wanting a brand new one. I am not a plumber so I don't know specifics about toilets, but from what I have read, it's legal to buy one and install it but to sell them (if you are a company) to use it in a new construction in California.

 

[Terry]

Pick up a 1.28, which will work better than the old 5.0 gallon toilets that we throw out all week.
If you want to use more than the 1.28, hold the handle down and drain the tank.
There isn't a 5 gallon toilet made that ever worked as good as the current crop of performance engineered 1.28's

If you can find an old toilet, you better keep a plunger near it.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[GoKohlerGo]

I respectfully disagree with Terry. There are MANY good 1.28's and 1.6's, but there are also many good 5 or 3.5 GPF toilets. Take the old American Standard Cadet, for example. I have a 1975 Cadet set up for testing and I haven't had it clog. To get one of these types of toilets locally, try the local Habitat for Humanity Re-Store, if you have one.

 

[WJcandee]

What Terry is politely saying is that there is no functional reason for you to want a 3+ gallon toilet. Given the current drought, I think it is asinine for you to build with this attitude. I would be pleased to find that the plumbing inspector red tags your job and it costs you an appropriate amount in fines and fixes to get with the program.

 

[Jadnashua]

On new construction, your inspector would likely fail your install with old toilets not meeting today's requirements. On existing facilities, you can keep using them, but it is irresponsible and wasteful of resources. None of the manufacturers make new toilets that meet your perceived requirements, and since it has been many years since those requirements changes, the odds of finding a new one in stock somewhere are slim since they couldn't legally be installed.

 

[JMac]

The word 'TROLL' comes to mind here....

 

[GoKohlerGo]

All I said was I like older fixtures. Is that so bad?

If you're in CA, get a 1.28 or 1.0 gallon toilet like the ones made by Toto. If you're in a place with an abundant amount of water, like where I live in Michigan, and your house is older than the toilet you're installing, go ahead. If you don't want to, fine by me.

Wjcandee, I don't see the need to get upset or anything.

 

[Plumbs Away]

There's a never-been installed late '70s Kohler 3.5 GPF Wellworth on eBay, but it's black, which I think is cool for a powder room. A few years ago, I got the same toilet from a different seller on eBay, but in Fresh Green. Mine was also NOS.

There is a seller on eBay who sells nothing but used toilets, but his prices are CRAZY. (For instance, that seller has an '80s American Standard Cadet 3.5 GPF with an 18"-high elongated bowl for $795.) Your best (and least costly) solution, if you really want to go this route, is Habitat for Humanity's ReStore, as noted earlier. In a larger metro area, they have a huge selection and they're usually priced $35-$50. Get some "green" muriatic acid and give it a good cleaning, with extra attention given to the rim channel and siphon jet areas of the bowl. Install new tank guts, making sure you get the correct ones, and you've basically got a new old toilet.

I have to agree with wjcandee on the water conservation issue, but it's your house and your home is your castle. To pass inspection, you would need to initially install the cheapest 1.0 to 1.6 GPF you can find (probably Glacier Bay or Lamosa or some other "crap" at The Home Depot) and then donate them later to Habitat for Humanity.

 

[Jadnashua]

Have you watched the news about the water crisis in California? And, you want to put in toilets that use about 3x the maximum allowed? That's a really arrogant attitude. CA is lots different than at least most places in the UK where they get adequate rainfall most of the year. There's a price to pay for all of the sunshine. Water is being essentially rationed in many places there.

 

[Wallijonn]

Criminal,

The old 3.5g toilets, and up, do not have the siphon jets of the newer toilets. So you are going to push the handle, hold down the handle, wait 10 seconds and let go of the handle. With a Toto you depress the handle all the way down and let go. The waste is sucked into the pipes. With a non-siphon toilet the waste is pushed down the pipes. Big difference. You say that it is new construction - which means that your pipes will be up to code, say about 4" PVC, so you shouldn't have any problem with waste. By the same token chances are your house will be built higher than the street level, so the pipes will angle down, again to assist waste removal. I think that there is no good reason why you should have to go with a 3.5g toilet. If it is because you want to be absolutely certain that you get a bowl wash, then install commercial grade toilets - the ones with 20, or so, jet streams that completely wash the rim. Paying $1000 for that toilet shouldn't be a concern in new construction.

 

[Phillip Beall]

Guys,

I am new to the forum and I joined largely to post to this thread. I was drawn to the forum by a Google search looking for options other than current toilets. Here are a couple of important points for all of you to please consider. 1) The Internet provides a potential audience that is unbelievably large. Within that large group there is bound to be someone that knows more than you do on any given topic. 2) There is likely going to be a scenario you perhaps have not experienced or perhaps even considered. I do not fit into the first category but I may fit into the second one.

My scenario has zero to do with clearing the toilet, so we can rule out plungers, how often old ones clogged, the design superiority of newer toilets, etc. - which I grant you are all true, but not on the mark for my application. My situation is:

1. Existing old farm house.
2. 100' run from the toilet to the septic clean out.
3. 3" main line.
   
4. Less than 1/4" drop per foot current code specifies.
5. Current old style toilet has a cracked base.
   
6. On private well and in Texas, not California, Arizona, etc. The water under the place is owned by the landowner for his 100% discretionary use.

We tried a current production toilet and it takes three flushes to get a toilet paper sample - no other stuff - from the bowl to the septic clean out. That means the system is going to be prone to clogging. Options are a very expensive macerating setup, another/replacement old toilet with more water flow, running the sink water during the entire "visit" or blowing the house up. For now I will dismiss the first and last options.

So, someone like me looking for a higher capacity flusher uses Google and comes to a page such as this one. I was dismayed at reading comments like "What Terry is politely saying is that there is no functional reason for you to want a 3+ gallon toilet. Given the current drought, I think it is asinine for you to build with this attitude. I would be pleased to find that the plumbing inspector red tags your job and it costs you an appropriate amount in fines and fixes to get with the program." Really? I just gave you an example of why a 3+ gallon toilet may be THE solution to a given situation. It may not be the OP's situation, I may get flamed for commenting on it, but I don't see the reason for the vitriol.

Valid suggestions seem to be to look at Craigslist, eBay and check with a Habitat for Humanity Re-Store, call local plumbers and look for a local salvage operation. Researching the matter here and elsewhere I find scant discussion about the legality and feasibility of securing a new one from Mexico or Canada. If someone wants to provide me with some other options, discussion of what I mentioned, etc., great.

Much thanks,

Phil

 

[Terry]

The newer bowls with the 3" flush valve are much better than the old and slow 5 gallon bowls. You can hold the handle down on the new tanks and drop three gallons in seconds.
I don't know the brand of toilet that you tried. Not everything is equal.
You could also put a Kohler Highline with Flushmate, and that would send it on down that line.

 

[Jadnashua]

It's a rare flush that will move things all the way to the end of a 100' run with one flush. It's very common for something like a subsequent shower or washing machine load to end up clearing it. Same thing applies in the areas with public sewers...stuff takes quite awhile to get all the way to the processing plant, and it wouldn't get there without subsequent other deposits into the line.

FWIW, Texas is one of the states that prohibits the sale, import, or installation of any plumbing product that does not meet current codes. This applies to both sellers, buyers, home owners, and professionals. IOW, buying, selling, importing, installing a 3g flush toilet is illegal in Texas. IT doesn't mean you have to replace an existing one (grandfathered), but you can't go out and try to install a new/used one.

 

[Phillip Beall]

Guys,

Thanks for the follow up. I don't have a model name or number yet, but the make of the one we currently have installed (which isn't getting the job done) is an American Standard. The people are both on the short side and so they specifically want short toilets. As I recall they said that when they went looking for the replacement the toilets at the sources they checked were 17" tall bowls and they ordered a toilet with a 15" tall bowl? And if that is the case I don't know if that would mean the water has 2" less drop, which could negatively affect how far down the line each flush pushes stuff, or if the toilet base height is designed to keep the water tank drop the same height above the floor as the taller toilets?

This toilet is at the end of the line in the house and everything else does help push this toilet's flushes the rest of the way out. In spite of this we have had to snake their line twice since swapping toilets about four months ago. We had a camera run down the line and noted no anomalies so it just looks like the length of the run, combined with the non-code compliant drop per foot of that run and the small amount of water the new toilet generates; to me it looks like more water is the only solution. As for the Flushmate, two things there. First, at this point they don't want the noise. Second, do those actually push things further down the line? I just figured the pressure was to clear the toilet, not the line...

Thanks much,

Phil

 

[Reach4]

Do I understand you to say that the toilet itself flushes fine, but the solids don't seem to move along well?

If so, you could temporarily increase water use by holding down the handle until the tank is empty during a flush. If that seems to help, you could get a flapper that closes later.

If the overflow tube is plastic, you could extend that, and increase the fill.

A bidet attachment would increase water use slightly, and it would reduce the amount of TP used. Some increase the seat height considerably, and others do not. A cheap non-heating attachment can be useful IMO.

 

[Terry]

As for the Flushmate, two things there. First, at this point they don't want the noise. Second, do those actually push things further down the line? I just figured the pressure was to clear the toilet, not the line...

Thanks much,

Phil

Video of the 1.1 gallon Flushmate. The 1.6 does even better. The video shows the Gerber Ultraflush, which also comes in standard height. I took this video in Michigan at the Flushmate factory.

You can also hold the handle down on the toilet you have. If it's the Cadet 3 by American Standard, holding the handle down will drop about 2.5 gallons.

 

[Mikey]

I left my home in FL to move to WA state, and it was about 3 months before it sold and was reoccupied. Shortly after the new owners moved in, they reported things were backing up into the master shower (at the high point of the waste system). I had had no such problems in the 20+ years I was there, so I was a little surprised, and filled them in with what information I had, which wasn't much. They called a plumber, who snaked the line and reported a clog of unknown composition very close to the exit of the main line to the septic system. The new lady of the house said she thought it was because the line had dried out and any residue had hardened into an immovable clog-builder.

The waste main line is about 75 feet from the master shower to exit, and I'd be real surprised if there was an 18 3/4" drop in the line over that length. I had a caretaker come in and refill the traps every couple weeks, but given the length, slope, and amount of water going down the line (maybe a few ounces from sinks and showers, 1.6 gallons from 2 toilets) wasn't enough to clean out the line initially, and keep it clean. I think the new lady of the house was spot on!

 

[Jadnashua]

Yeah, it's much better to have to flush the thing 3-4 times to get the job done... SMH

If your toilet requires three flushes to actually do its job, it's time to find a better toilet!