Looking for an Iron Filter and Softener Solution for new well

Discussion in 'Water Softener Forum, Questions and Answers' started by Bigcc, Jul 20, 2017.

  1. Bigcc

    Bigcc New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2016
    Location:
    Ontario
    Hello,

    I am building a new home and have recently had a well drilled. My water test results came back and I am being told I will need an iron filter and softener. My results are below

    Hardness 18
    Iron 2.94
    Total Dissolved Solids (TDS) 2.14
    Manganese .5
    PH 7.5

    There will be 4 people living in the house and I want to maintain a 12 GPM flow rate for a high flow shower. I have 1" copper that will feed the iron filter and softener. I also plan on installing a UV light (Viqua 410). I need some help with the softener and filter sizing and also wanted advice on the type of media to use Katalox or Birm for the iron filter and SST-60 or 10% crosslinked for the softener. I also was considering the Clack WS1EE or Fleck 5810 SXT controls. The house is on a septic system as well so I would like to install an efficient system. I have talked with several sales guys and they all say something completely different. I would appreciate any advice.
     
  2. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2013
    Location:
    IL
    That number does not fit with your other numbers; typo I think.

    How deep is your well? With a deep well, sanitizing is usually enough, and UV is not needed. If you do use UV, that needs to be preceded with a cartridge filter to exclude particles that could protect the bacteria from UV. I am not a pro.

    2 cubic ft of resin (12" x 52" tank) would be a good size. 2.5 (13" x 54") would not be a waste. Either resin you mention would be good, but I would go with the 10% crosslinked.
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2017
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  4. Bigcc

    Bigcc New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2016
    Location:
    Ontario
    Thanks Reach

    I had two water tests performed. The 2nd test results are (no manganese result was given on the 2nd test)
    PH 7.8
    TDS 3.8
    Hardness 17.5
    Iron 2.33

    The well is 165' deep and it was sanitized by the well driller. The UV light was just a precaution in case there was bacteria. We were hoping to not need a cartridge filter so we could limit the pressure drop but it could easily be added.
     
  5. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2013
    Location:
    IL
    17.5 hardness is about 300 mg/L calcium equivalent. That would be part of the total. So I would think that with that much hardness, you would have to have 300 mg/L or more of total dissolved solids, since the hardness stuff is part of the total. Maybe my understanding has been wrong.

    A cartridge sediment filter takes out non dissolved solids.
     
  6. ditttohead

    ditttohead Water systems designer, R&D

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2012
    Occupation:
    Water systems designer, R&D, Technical Director
    Location:
    Ontario California
    High iron, manganese, turbidity, hardness and acceptable pH The 3.8 TDS is probably 380 which is fine. UV is always recommended as it provides a safety barrier. The pre-treatment of KL and softening should negate the need for a cartridge filter.

    Oxidant injection would be recommended but you could try a simple air injection first. Are you planning on purchasing from a local company or DIY?

    Air injection ahead of the pressure tank, contact tank with air bleed or not, 2 ft3 KL system and a softener then UV should make for some good water.

    https://view.publitas.com/impact-water-products/2018-catalog-final/page/46-47
    This is what I am referring to when I say air injection, do you have a standard pump/pressure tank system controlled by a 60-40 pressure switch?
     
  7. Bigcc

    Bigcc New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2016
    Location:
    Ontario
    Ditto head how does that air injection setup work? Most of the local guys are saying to use a tank with a small air bubble in the top. I would prefer to install the system myself, do you have a source to supply the equipment? I have a submersible well pump with a cyclestop valve and a small pressure tank. I went this route instead of the variable speed pump and drive and so far it is working very nice. I have a 60-80 pressure switch so I get a pretty consistent 70 psi. When you say oxidant injection what exactly are you referring to?
    your iron filter uses a 5810 control? Do you recommend these? What type of resin do you recommend for the softener?
    Thanks for you help.
     
  8. ditttohead

    ditttohead Water systems designer, R&D

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2012
    Occupation:
    Water systems designer, R&D, Technical Director
    Location:
    Ontario California
    There are dozens of ways to do iron reduction. The air injection/tank/bleed off... method is one of the simpler and more reliable ways of doing it. Air is simply drawn in every time the pump cycles. This air enters a contact type of tank which keeps a large air pocket that the water cascades through to further oxygenate the water. Excess air is purged out the top of the tank. If air alone is not adequate a simple h2o2 injection system can be added later if needed but most of the time, air is adequate.

    The 5810 is sold through local dealers and is a premium control valve. Realistically the system can use any quality control valve. I would strogly recommend avoiding the cheap knockoffs that are manufactured at the lowest price point, they are not worth the cost savings.

    For the softener, a simple 8 or 10% crosslink, certified by the WQA/NSF should will be fine. A lot of discount companies claim 8 or 10% resin but since you cant see what they are putting in... be very wary.
     
  9. montelatici

    montelatici Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2015
    Location:
    Upper Marlboro, Maryland
    Before you go and spend a bunch of money on injection systems etc. install a Katolite backwashing filter and see how it does backwashing daily. Then if your water is still not to your liking install a salt softener after the K-lite filter. Sometimes I despair at the expensive solutions proposed here.
     
  10. ditttohead

    ditttohead Water systems designer, R&D

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2012
    Occupation:
    Water systems designer, R&D, Technical Director
    Location:
    Ontario California
    Serious? Air injection is expensive? Do you have any clue as to the price of it?

    Some of the guys making suggestions here have 3+ decades of real world field experience and understand that many of the cheap systems are simply garbage/disposable systems made in China with poor flow rates, poor backwash rates, and are very difficult to maintain, repair and keep operating. A top of the line system may add a couple hundred dollars but at least it will work. Your "it worked on my house so it will work on yours" is simply bad advise. I give advise based on my multitude of certifications including WQA CWS VI, Master Water Specialist, WQA Certified System Installer, Steam Boiler Operator 500HP, Contractors license, USP27 System operator and several others. I don't sell direct to end users so why would I care? Because I spent 25 years in the field working on junk equipment, actually, when I was working the field we would rarely work on it since it would be like rebuilding a Yugo. No mechanic in their right mind will bother. I still get parts request for 30-40 year old Fleck valves that are in the field still working, and we still have parts for them. Most of the low end systems are simply landfilled in 5-10 years or basically after the first break down and people realize nobody will take on the liability and service them.

    Please explain the "expensive solution" that you "despair" over?

    I mentioned the Air since his local guys recommended it. The reason the local guys mentioned it is because that is what they have found works locally. Iron reduction is not as simple as looking at a water report and throwing KL at it. KL, like every other manganese dioxide ore based media has very definite limitations. Dissolved oxygen, pH, ORP, water temperature, Co2, etc... all have to be taken into consideration and even then it can be hit and miss. I rely on my knowledge of local water conditions and when I don't know them, ie: Ontario Canada, I rely on the local water treatment guys who have to deal with the problem regularly and have already figured out the best system design for their unique water conditions. If you take a look at our catalog, we have a half dozen iron reduction system designs listed in our catalog, and probably another 10 that we build to our customer specifications.
    Hope this helps.
     
  11. Matt Peiris

    Matt Peiris New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2018
    Location:
    Long Beach,CA
    I'm interested to know if you were able to implement the solutions discussed here. It's been an year since the last post.

    To my knowledge, with the given analysis, a properly sized cation exchange softener should be able to handle both the hardness and iron.
    If there are no other major competing cations in your water, the hardness level of 17.5 allows the softener to treat up to 8.75 ppm of iron. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
     
  12. ditttohead

    ditttohead Water systems designer, R&D

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2012
    Occupation:
    Water systems designer, R&D, Technical Director
    Location:
    Ontario California
    Just because a piece of equipment can do something does not make it a good solution. If this were the case a .25 ft3 softener would be adequate for most houses. Iron reduction through softening is an old techniques that should be buried. This one of many reasons why softener bans are being accepted. By using a softener for iron reduction we are using and wasting massive amounts of salt. This salt finds its way into our ground water supplies and is difficult for municipalities to treat. in the wastewater. By increasing efficiencies to reasonable levels and not using extremely wasteful designs (softener for iron reduction) we can slow or eliminate these softener bans with ease.

    The math is simple,each ppm of iron has to be compensated as 85 ppm of hardness. We also eliminate the potential for low salting (higher efficiencies) and larger units which further increase efficiency make no sense since the regeneration frequency must be increased. Add to that the need for regular chemical cleaning of the resin bed is also needed...

    Do not use softeners for iron reduction at levels above 1 ppm if it can be avoided.
     
    Matt Peiris likes this.
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