Looking for advice/info on implementing a new well

Discussion in 'Pumps and Tanks Well Forum & Blog. Water is life.' started by mpilihp, Nov 4, 2014.

  1. mpilihp

    mpilihp New Member

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    Nov 4, 2014
    Hello I am trying to install a well at a camp with the intent that it have the capability for drain back into well as we are in Maine and with frequent power outages I cannot rely on heat tape.

    That said the standard drilled well option is out because of price, I got quotes from 3 drillers and the estimate based on existing wells around me is $14-16K, my two neighbors are in the 480-500ft range.

    So we tried a dug well with the intent of putting a submersable pump in it and removing the foot valve. The contractor could only go 12ft and we hit clay, and did not produce much water after multiple attempts to pump it dry to see if it would open a vein as he put it.

    Looking for other options, the other local contractors that can dig deeper (up to 20ft) both will not do a tiled well but instead use the black plastic culvert 2ft pipe so no one has to climb down into hole. My issue with that is they have not done it with a submersable pump and dont think it can be done.

    So two questions -
    #1 Is there a pitless adapter that can connect through the thick wall of a plastic culvert wall? (contractors first issue with using a sub pump)

    #2 Can a submersable pump be used if it is not secured at the bottom? In the original plan with the 4ft concrete casing the pump was to be secured at the bottom with a PVC pipe and it would be slotted to allow water in.

    My second option is I was told by a geologist that drilled the wells for a local bottled water plant up in the area that they only went down 40-60ft range for that plant's wells. He stated that unconfined water is better quality and based on the local aquifer map I have water above the bedrock at my location (which is at aprox 100ft). The issue with this design is well drillers do not buy into drilling for shallow water or are not interested in it as at that depth they do not make much money.

    Question here is, if I did convince a driller to do this, how do you know you hit water?
    The process the geologist spoke of was putting the casing down till you hit good water, placing a 2 inch pipe down into the casing with a screen on the end, then filling the bottom with sand. Then a Anoluser seal is placed on the 2 inch pipe sealing it to the casing. Then the casing is pulled up to allow the sand to be exposed to the ground. The pump is then installed above the 2in pipe... I just never got the process down of how that is done 40-60 ft down a pipe when your at the top or how to know you hit water....

    Anyone hear of doing a well like this? See attached picture of diagram
    Thank You

    ~ Phil
     

    Attached Files:

  2. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

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    Location:
    IL
    Submersible well pumps are not normally secured at the bottom. They hang from the drop pipe above the bottom.

    I have no knowledge of wells such as you describe.
     
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  4. LLigetfa

    LLigetfa DIYer, not in the trades

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    NW Ontario, Canada
    Do not remove the checkvalve from the pump to facilitate drainback. It will cause the pump to spin backwards and were there a call for water while it is spinning backwards, it may break. Standard procedure is to use a bleeder valve in the drop pipe.
     
  5. mpilihp

    mpilihp New Member

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    Nov 4, 2014
    Hi thanks the original contractor stated that is how its done, I have since read info online about using a diverter valve but I am not a plumber and do not know anymore than that. The other contractors do not do submersibles so they do not know either. My camp is remote in a small town and only 3 contractors with the equipment to dig as deep as I need and they do not know how to do this. Can you point me to a link for these diverter valves? Here is the link to what I read about this type of setup.
    http://www.cottagewatersupply.com/CottageLifeExcerpt.pdf
     
  6. LLigetfa

    LLigetfa DIYer, not in the trades

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    Bleeders are sometimes called valves and other times called orifices. They are not the exclusive domain of cottage water systems. They are used with hydro-pneumatic tanks on standard wells as part of an air-maker system.
    http://www.wellpro.com/catalog/TankAccessories.pdf
     
  7. mpilihp

    mpilihp New Member

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    Nov 4, 2014
    Hi so looking at this document are you saying above the pump I would put a tee and put one of the WBB075 orifices on? This would allow a small amount of water to drain back down correct? When the pump runs does it also allow water to excape or is because it is under pressure water cannot then go out?
     
  8. mpilihp

    mpilihp New Member

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    Nov 4, 2014
    Hello, how about pitless adapters, are you aware of any that would be long enough to go through a black plastic culvert pipe, Im guessing the wall could be 2 in thick.

    Thanks ~ Phil
     
  9. LLigetfa

    LLigetfa DIYer, not in the trades

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    Location:
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    The bleeder is designed to leak only a tiny amount when under pressure. When the pressure drops, they open up.

    As for a pitless on plastic culvert pipe, I suggest a larger steel plate be mounted to spread the load. The plastic culverts I've seen are made like cardboard with corrugated centre that form hollows.
     
  10. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

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  11. valveman

    valveman Cary Austin Staff Member

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    Pump Controls Technician
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    Lubbock, Texas
    You can probably screw the pitless adapter into a tank adapter that will attach to the thick wall tank.
     
  12. craigpump

    craigpump In the Trades

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    The easiest way to have a drain back, is to simply drill a 1/16" hole in the pipe right at the water level.

    I doubt the pipe is 2" thick, but it's probably corrugated, and that would be tough to seal. I have seen pitless adapters mounted on long nipples through well tiles. The nipple goes through the tile and the pitless is just screwed on to the nipple. Use a hole saw on the culvert, insert the nipple and then use a good grade of silicone to create the seal. I would do this before putting the culvert in the hole....
     
  13. mpilihp

    mpilihp New Member

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    Nov 4, 2014
    Hi thanks for the link I think that idea would work well but I would probably use a galvanized pipe instead of plastic. The whole article is interesting, we do not have bore hole drillers up here in Maine.
     
  14. mpilihp

    mpilihp New Member

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    Nov 4, 2014
    Hi can you share a link to a tank adapter as I do not know what that is.
    Thanks ~ Phil
     
  15. mpilihp

    mpilihp New Member

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    Nov 4, 2014
    Thats another good idea thanks, yes the culvert is thick but only in space as im sure much of it is hollow. Ive got several good options/ideas to talk to the contractor about using to put a submersable pump at the bottom.

    Thank You ~ Phil
     
  16. craigpump

    craigpump In the Trades

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    You don't want galvanized pipe due to corrosion issues, better off to use sch 80 or 120 PVC and brass or stainless fittings and pitless
     
  17. valveman

    valveman Cary Austin Staff Member

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  18. mpilihp

    mpilihp New Member

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    Nov 4, 2014
    Ok but just curious what about driven well point type wells they are all galv steel...
     
  19. craigpump

    craigpump In the Trades

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    Self employed water system tech
    Location:
    Connecticut
    I suppose they are but that's because they are driven/washed in and you cant drive on PVC without it breaking
     
  20. mpilihp

    mpilihp New Member

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    Nov 4, 2014
  21. mpilihp

    mpilihp New Member

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    Nov 4, 2014
    Ok so my point is its ok for those wells, my concern with PVC and what little understanding / experience I have with making /breaking pitless adapter is Im afraid it could put stress on PVC and break it... Ill discuss with the installer and let him decide, and if he doesnt want to do it then Ill be doing it myself with him just digging the hole and setting the culvert for me.

    Thanks ~ Phil
     
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