Likelihood of a DIY'er removing a Spool Pitless, and identification

Discussion in 'Pumps and Tanks Well Forum & Blog. Water is life.' started by haniblecter, Apr 12, 2021.

  1. haniblecter

    haniblecter New Member

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    Hello!

    This forum has been a great resource in trying to figure out my problems, thanks!

    Bought a house last year. The house got city water several years ago but kept the well for the outside lines. The municipality didn't like that and said you can keep it, but you can't service the well. Not going to call a well guy as I don't want to risk it.

    There already was a 20/40 pressure switch on the tank and the water pressure didn't seem too good last summer. Didn't think much on it until I turned on my faucet this spring and I got nothing. Getting 12amps/110 volts from the Common and Black at the well head (single digits for the start line) so I'm thinking its toast. Newer franklin 1/2hp control box that tests fine.

    Its an older spool, the upper pipe (above the spool) is 5 inches. just curious on the likelihood a DIY'er can pull off reusing the old spool thats in there. Havent had time to pickup pipe (going to go with schedule 80) and I think its 1 1/4'', but assuming I can get it out of there, could I just switch out the rubber seals and be good?

    Really hoping on avoiding digging 5yds of dirt and cutting a new hole for a modern adapter.

    Thanks!
     

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  2. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

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  4. haniblecter

    haniblecter New Member

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    it's 5in ID (have to add .4'') so it doesn't fit neatly on that graph I've seen before.

    another question, does anyone know if I have to turn that hex first?
     

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  5. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

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  6. haniblecter

    haniblecter New Member

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  7. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

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    I marked the hex bolt head with yellow lines. To the left there appear to be some female threads pointed to by two green arrows. If so, the intended lift method would be to screw a threaded pipe into the FIP threads that sit higher than the bolt head. Then lift without turning the bolt.

    If that is a FIP thread, it looks like it would have to be cleaned up to use. A 1 inch NPT pipe tap (11.5 TPI) might be able to do that, but seems hard to get there and use.

    Or maybe a threaded 1 inch pipe would fit there without thread chasing. I just don't know.
     

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  8. haniblecter

    haniblecter New Member

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    don't turn hexagon, thread pipe and hope the oxidized threads beat out the oxidation around the inner pipe, gotchya.

    anyone got an opinion on whether a spool is reusable?
     
  9. valveman

    valveman Cary Austin Staff Member

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    Depends on what it looks like when you get it out. I would say those pull port threads don't look very good to start with.
     
  10. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

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    Please don't think I have ever seen such a pitless, or that my guesses and suspicions should be acted on without further physical investigation.
     
  11. haniblecter

    haniblecter New Member

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    No need to warn my friend, it's an internet forum and any information taken from such and should be taken with a single sodium chloride ion.

    agreed on the threads. I'm going to document everything to aid others. my dad was thinking I could get purchase from underneath the adapter and yank it up, but my mind is spiralling out of control with everything that could go wrong.
     
  12. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

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    The warning was that you seemed to think I was stating what I thought to be facts about the pitless, rather than questions and speculation.

    That is to say that while skepticism is good, was not needed in this case, because I stated nothing as fact on this thread that was not true. I think you were over-extrapolated.
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2021
  13. valveman

    valveman Cary Austin Staff Member

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    That is what you will have to do if the pitless spool won't come out. But it is not an easy job, so try to get the spool out first.
     
  14. 2stupid2fixit

    2stupid2fixit Member

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    I think its a matter of how long you want to live with the issue. We all now know that you have a thread issue and you cant spray PB Blaster down there. How far out of the question is it to dig it out and put in a usable pitless adapter? Notice my photo, I got started in this forum because of issues with my pitless. I did everything else right but my pitless was a fcking problem no matter what I did. So... dig I did. Problem solved for 30 more years. BUT- I plan on keeping the house. If you are in it for short term, quick fix might be the way to go. About your mind spiralling out of control about what could go wrong... Is it possible that you could accidentally drop the pump to a living room in China? And have to pay someone to finger it out of the bore? If the answer is NO, then hell, go for it.
     
  15. haniblecter

    haniblecter New Member

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    UPDATE:

    Got it Out! (With some questions in bold)

    The pull pipe was 1.5 inches! I used a drill spade bit to measure the hole on the bottom. Taped it to the end of a broom and snuck it down there. Went with just some galvanized well pipe, didn't get schedule 80 black, but I'm thinking that might have helped if I did (harder metal)

    Had time this past Sunday, screwed it in. Was able to with a T joint and a 2ft section. I put my weight on it (supporting the unit while we were screwing it with my foot...didn't want it to cross thread) then had my wife turn the whole thing. I hit it a few times with my pipe wrench while turning it to help the threads cut. We turned it until it start slipping. Figured it wasn't going to work but still put my HF 3ton floor jack underneath it. I was worried because I couldnt get the jack directly underneath the T joint, bending the pipe a little, but I didnt have hope for the threads so I jacked anyway. When that first seal released I cracked a Two Hearted immediately!

    Looking at the pics, you can see only the first 4 threads or so engaged! Might have had...anywhere from 400-6000lbs of force on it? 400 b/c my and my wife tried to pull it up, 6000 b/c of the jack max (highly, HIGHLY doubt that) I think what saved me was the fact that the pipe bent a little. That might have wedged the pipe in the adapter, allowing me to put whatever force was needed to extract it. I think schedule 80 black pipe (gas pipe) would have aided in cutting the threads (harder metal)

    I DID NOT HAVE TO TURN THE NUT. The nut seems to just be used to fuse the upper and lower assembly of the adapter. It is not a sealing mechanism for the unit (unless there's some very involved mechanism inside the unit, but not going to try and break it to find out)

    Was very worried about losing the pipe in pulling it (bummed out when I seen it was galvanized!) Neighbor shared that his fatherinlaw lost a pipe trying to use vice grips (lol) to support the pipe. Had an extra pipe vice laying around (has V shaped teeth -inside- the clamp) and did a test case to see if it'll hold (see pic) Kicked it a ton, nothing.

    My father in law came up and brought two big 24in pipe wrenches. He had a brilliant idea to use those to get leverage on the galvanized. You get both on the pipe like you're going to turn it. The things are so hefty, that we used it to pull the pipe up perpendicular to how you'd turn it. Worked. Like. A. Charm. Wife manned the vice, tightening it as my FiL and myself hefted up the pipe in the air (pic).

    We didnt take the adapter off as a safety mechanism to dropping the first section. Regretted not doing that and adding a T and a pipe in its place as I didnt want to damage it in the fall. We ended up putting the pipe in the tree when we unscrewed it, ensuring no damage to the adapter.

    A couple plumbers friends were needed (read: pipe on the end of the wrench) but the 3 sections came right off (only 60ft down). Only issue was keeping the young kids away from the 'drop zone', but it went well. Maybe 200-300lb of weight with the water column in the pipe. Vice was an excellent addition.

    Question 1
    The drop pipe was only 1 inch (oddly, see pic '1 inch') The adapter seems to have an adapter itself screwed on to accept the 1 inch pipe, does any know if I can just get a wrench on there and take it off, allowing me to use 1.25?

    Question 2
    Also, the rubber seals seem fine, but I'm going to get some new ones. Based on some prior posts, that is a product that is made. Where do I find those? Any well suppliers/stores in Michigan I should try?

    Was an old Franklin Electric 1/2 hp. Going to put a 3/4's or 1hp one on there as I have designs of adding a sprinkler system off of it in the years to come. Going to put a 1 1/4 black pipe on it, not even going to consider galvanized or pvc. Going to redo the expansion tank and remove the 20/40 and put something meatier, 40/60 maybe.

    Question 3
    Is there any advantage to putting a larger expansion tank if I'm just going to use this for outside spigots? Any advantage to going to a higher switch (40/60) ?

    Very pumped (pun intended) that I was able to get this 'pitless' out without creating my own pit. Any feedback is appreciated!
     

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    Last edited: Apr 26, 2021
  16. valveman

    valveman Cary Austin Staff Member

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    Good job! Now you can focus on the pump system. Larger pressure tank will slow down the cycling but, you will still have a LOT of cycling using hoses for irrigation. Best to use a smaller pressure tank with a Cycle Stop Valve like in the PK1A kit. The CSV gives strong constant pressure, eliminated cycling, and allows the use of a 4.5 or 10 gallon size pressure tank.
     
  17. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

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    How far down was the pump mounted?

    How far down was the water surface (static level)? The waterline mark on the drop pipe could tell you that maybe.

    Note that when you select a pump, HP is only one aspect. GPM on a normal pump is another important factor. The lower gpm rating will be able to pump higher or have more pressure. The cheapest of the 3/4 hp pumps may be 10 gpm. 7 gpm has more stages and costs more.

    Take measurements with your digital caliper, and locate replacement o-rings.
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2021
  18. haniblecter

    haniblecter New Member

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    water line was 25ft from the cap, the rust started there and went down. probably going to stick with 60ft so not alot of head to worry about. if I'm going to run sprinklers (at least one zone at a time) should I go with a 15 gpm then?

    got some nice calipers, I'll just locate a seal that way on the internet, thanks for the PM reach!

    any advice on going from 1 inch to 1.25?
     

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