LIberty 404 Basin Pump - To Vent or not to vent

Discussion in 'Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice' started by Takeadoe, May 2, 2015.

  1. Takeadoe

    Takeadoe New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2015
    Location:
    Ohio
    Hi Everyone,

    A bit about myself before my first post, which I'm afraid is likely to prompt some to say - OMGosh, not again. Anyhow, I'm a wildlife biologist living in a college town. I own 3 single-family rentals. I follow directions well, I like to learn, I know my limits, and I realize that time is precious. Any time of yours that you can spare, is genuinely appreciated. I've never built a house, but I can do more than change a light bulb. Here's the skinny. Two-story house built in the 40s. Washing machine in the basement. WM drains into a utility tub. Utility tub drains into a floor drain in the corner.



    Floor drain is dead. My plan it to plug floor drain, after I install a Liberty basin pump (model 404). My plan was to use a wye fitting to tie directly into the overhead sewer line (see photo below). Initially, that was my biggest concern. Now it seems that venting has become the real issue.



    Note that the white pipe coming in from the right drains the toilet from the second floor. The black pipe that it joins runs another 20' and exits the house. The black pipe coming in from your left accepts the first floor bath and the kitchen sink/dishwasher. That is the line that I planned to tie into. Now, onto what seems to get the hair up on the back of everyone's neck - how to handle venting. I have read a ton of posts and this seems to be a topic that stirs a bit of debate. For instance, I found the post below. Perhaps I'm misreading, but it says, "No vent of any kind other than the sewer line is vented up stream of this connection." Immediately following this post, another member says in no uncertain terms this must be vented through the roof.

    I would be grateful for some help sorting this out. If it has to be vented through the roof, I have no idea where to begin. I understand the "venting" concept, but the discussions have left me wondering about the need to vent. Now, so that we are all clear, safety of my tenants and their comfort is my primary concern. Code is important and I'd really like to do it perfectly, but I can't rebuild the house to put in a roof vent. And yes, you have me convinced that the "Magic Vents" , AAVs, and similar products will not suffice as a vent. Lastly, what about the Saniflo Saniswift? Is it any different than the pump that I've proposed to use? I'd be grateful if you would give me a couple options. I do apologize in advance for my ignorance and hope that you will be patient as I try and communicate with you!

    Mike
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 28, 2017
  2. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2004
    Occupation:
    Plumber
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    When you are using a gray water basin with pump it's a little different than for a sewage pump.
    Most of the time I see washer pumps installed without connecting a vent to the house system.
    It will need a check valve on the discharge.
    A sewage basin is always vented.

    I found this in the manual though.
    VENT: Provision is made for a vent stack to allow extra volume for high suds conditions, and to ensure proper drainage of the fixture. HAND-TIGHTEN ONLY. DO NOT CAP-OFF VENT. DO NOT use ONE-WAY QUICK-VENTS or AIR ADMITTENCE VALVES as they will not guarantee proper fixture performance. The vent pipe should have a union to facilitate removal if required and shall be connected directly to a building or house vent.
     
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  4. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2004
    Occupation:
    Retired Systems engineer for defense industry.
    Location:
    New England
    Ideally, you'd provide a vent to the pump. IF you do cap the line, you may only get very slow drainage into the pump basin since the trapped air needs to go somewhere. Since you won't be opening the pump basin and cleaning it out, if it isn't vented, it can start to smell nasty eventually. But, on a WM, the last rinse cycle is almost clean water, so you may not notice. You'd typically use a p-trap on the sink, and that closes things off from the rest of the sewer.
     
  5. cwhyu2

    cwhyu2 Consultant

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2007
    Occupation:
    Consultant
    Location:
    Cincinnati OH
    If you plan to open floor to install a sump basin I would investigate why the floor drain is not working.
    As you can indirect waste to a floor drain from a laundry tray.

    But that was approved a long time ago.
    That way as long as floor drain is vented no vent required on sink.
     
  6. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2004
    Occupation:
    Retired Systems engineer for defense industry.
    Location:
    New England
    There's a lot of lint in the outlet of a washing machine. Depending on how well things drain, eventually, it can clog things up. A good cleaning may resolve the problem, but because it tends to hold moisture, it helps to corrode the metal pipes over years of exposure.
     
  7. Takeadoe

    Takeadoe New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2015
    Location:
    Ohio
    Thanks to all. Terry, the last sentence of your post stated, "the vent pipe should have a union to facilitate removal if required and shall be connected directly to a building or house vent." Could you or someone translate that for me?

    Thank you!
     
  8. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2004
    Occupation:
    Retired Systems engineer for defense industry.
    Location:
    New England
    A union is a fitting that is designed to be taken apart. Should you need to do maintenance to the basin, you don't want to have to cut the pipe if there is no easy way to disconnect it from the plumbing.
     
  9. Takeadoe

    Takeadoe New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2015
    Location:
    Ohio
    Hi Jadnashua, Thank you for clarifying. My apologies for not being clearer. What I was getting at in the last sentence is, while Terry noted that he has rarely seen these pumps vented when used with ONLY a WM, the manufacture does recommend venting. Technically, attaching 8' of vent pipe is a vent, it's just not to the outside. Right? Functionally, it serves as a vent, as it can draw air from the basement. I will keep an eye on it and I think I'm going to attach a wye fitting with a "stopper/plug" (on the vent pipe) that can be removed to accept a tablespoon of vinegar or bleach from time to time. Also, I was going to ask, would it be overkill to put a check valve not only at the pump (in fact, won't it attach directly to pump) and then one just before it ties into the top of the sanitary line? And yes, I'm position the wye so that I'm coming into the top of the sanitary line. Lastly, can it be plumbed so that I can replace the check valves without destroying everything?

    Thank you to all!
     
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