Leaks with a rear discharge

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heavyhanded

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Hi, I installed a American standard yorkville rear discharge toilet last year. I put in a small bathroom on my second floor and it allowed me to tie into existing plumbing without having to cut through floor joists. I have replaced the gasket 2 times because of leaks, and I just replaced it a third time with the worse leak yet.
1st install- closet flange was installed on the drywall, which I see now is against the instructions of being flush to 1/16" proud. I used a elastomer gasket. It it didn't last long. When I took it off it was completely shredded. I am guessing because the flange was out too far it compressed it too much.
2nd- Used a reinforced wax ring. It lasted longer, but it finally let go with a large leak the other day.
3rd- I realized the issue with the closet flange being surface mounted to the drywall. I also thought because the flange went over the 3" pipe, it was creating a lip for water to sit in. I cut the flange out and installed one that fits inside the 3" pipe, but is flush to the drywall. I probably should not have done this. I used a reinforced wax ring again, and it leaked instantly, worse than ever.
I ordered a neoprene gasket, but I'm not confident that will solve the issue. Would I be better off replacing the closet flange again to fit over the 3 pipe and use a Fernco FTS-3 gasket?
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John Gayewski

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The flange should be out from the wall. You can order different thicknesses of these gaskets based on your fit. There are also different types of these gaskets some are really firm and some are pretty squishy. You really need to try things until you find one that works well. I like to use the 3/8" thick that are pretty squishy. Did you get the ones that stick to the toilet or the ones that have bolt holes and go on the wall prior? I prefer the ones that go on the bolts.
 

John Gayewski

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And how could I have possibly known that? I'll look for help elsewhere, thanks.
Considering your flush with the wall a 9/16" gasket with the holes for the bolts is what I'd use. Part of the problem with your assembly is the all plastic flange. Usually I prefer to nut the bolts to the flange very firmly then your free to nut the toilet to the flange very firmly while driving it to the wall with your shoulder. The leveling is done last with shims cut to length. Bolting to the floor is just to hold it from moving side to side.

No one suggested you should have known that the flange should be away from the wall. But after my first post, if your only response was" the instructions said... " then I'm not sure you actually wanted help. Especially since you didn't answer my question.
 

heavyhanded

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Considering your flush with the wall a 9/16" gasket with the holes for the bolts is what I'd use. Part of the problem with your assembly is the all plastic flange. Usually I prefer to nut the bolts to the flange very firmly then your free to nut the toilet to the flange very firmly while driving it to the wall with your shoulder. The leveling is done last with shims cut to length. Bolting to the floor is just to hold it from moving side to side.

No one suggested you should have known that the flange should be away from the wall. But after my first post, if your only response was" the instructions said... " then I'm not sure you actually wanted help. Especially since you didn't answer my question.
I was just confused by the contradicting information. This is the first seal I used https://www.supplyhouse.com/Sani-Seal-PT-375-Premium-Tight-Seal-Toilet-Gasket-3-4-Thick that didn't last long.
And this is the second one I used https://www.supplyhouse.com/Fluidmaster-PRO70B-R-PRO70B-R-Series-Back-Outlet-Wax-No-Bolts
Neither had bolts like you described. The first flange I used was the one with the metal ring.
The difference from the lip to the recessed section where the gasket attaches to over the outlet is 5/8". So with the flange being flush, there would be a 5/8" space between the outlet and the flange that the gasket would need to fill. Wouldn't water always sit against the gasket, and any type of gasket leak eventually?

I am certainly looking for help, I am a barely competent DIYer. My father in law helped me with the renovation and all other plumbing issues, but he died last year.
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John Gayewski

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heavyhanded

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When your toilet is set on place doors it wobble or rock in any way?
It has always been very solid.
I haven't used these, but I've heard they work pretty well for this. I have come across them in the field and they are pretty squishy. I can't find online, the ones I normally buy at my local supply house

I will give this a try.
Did I make a mistake by changing the closet flange? I do have access to the plumbing, I could cut the 3" pipe, put a new flange on and reconnect with coupling.
 

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John Gayewski

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It has always been very solid.


I will give this a try.
Did I make a mistake by changing the closet flange? I do have access to the plumbing, I could cut the 3" pipe, put a new flange on and reconnect with coupling.
No you don't need to change it. You just need to find the right gasket or combination of things that will hold.

I think the issue is more likley how it's bolted to the flange. The toilet needs to be sucked up to the flange and held solid. It looks like your bolt is not going to be held very well. I'm thinking you might be better off using new anchors and putting some blocking behind the drywall and flange and anchoring to that.

A wall hung rear outlet toilet gets a lot of its compression ability from being "hinged" by the top bolts and letting gravity smash it against the gasket, same with a bottom outlet toilet, gravity is smashing the gasket to the toilet and flange. With your toilet all of the compression is being handled by the bolts. If you can get some 5/16" bolts that will anchor into wood and put some wood blocks behind the flange and drywall, I think you could reliably hold this toilet back to the flange firmly. As long as there's no rocking.
 

heavyhanded

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No you don't need to change it. You just need to find the right gasket or combination of things that will hold.

I think the issue is more likley how it's bolted to the flange. The toilet needs to be sucked up to the flange and held solid. It looks like your bolt is not going to be held very well. I'm thinking you might be better off using new anchors and putting some blocking behind the drywall and flange and anchoring to that.

A wall hung rear outlet toilet gets a lot of its compression ability from being "hinged" by the top bolts and letting gravity smash it against the gasket, same with a bottom outlet toilet, gravity is smashing the gasket to the toilet and flange. With your toilet all of the compression is being handled by the bolts. If you can get some 5/16" bolts that will anchor into wood and put some wood blocks behind the flange and drywall, I think you could reliably hold this toilet back to the flange firmly. As long as there's no rocking.
Just to be clear, are you saying put some blocking behind the flange, and then lagging to that instead of using the johni bolts? that would make sense and make for a better connection, I just don't think I would be able to get a piece in there. I only have access to the framing from the front.
 
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