Leaking condensate line

[KineticoUser]

My tenants called me and said the popcorn ceiling was falling down. I checked it out and discovered what appears to be a condensate line leak. It is somewhere in the wall between the floor of the attic and the ceiling of the first floor on a 2-story house. The line is a continuous 3/4" black polybutylene pipe that comes down through the wall and exits out the garage. I disconnected the line on top and blew through it to make sure there were no obstructions, and I felt no resistance. Water comes out of the line in the garage, but the tray is dry, and I encountered no water when I disconnected the line to check for obstructions. Part of that line that leaked in the past, but I could prove it was cut when I had a whole-house copper repipe. They fixed that, but I don't see how I can prove this leak was caused by the repipe plumbers. I figure the most cost effective way to fix this is to replace the vertical pipe run. Unfortunately, there is very little space in the attic (due to large HVAC ducting) and the downstairs ceiling (which also has a large HVAC duct running under the condensate pipe). The condensate pipe comes down the wall with the two freon lines to and from the compressor. The copper repipe was done about 8 years ago, and this is the first time this pipe has leaked.

The pipe is bent 90° above and below the wall. The other repair was done on the horizontal run in the ceiling of the first floor, and I can connect the new line to the old repair. How do you recommend I replace this line? Recommended materials and fittings would be appreciated, along with the easiest way to snake the new line up from the first floor. There is only about 3' space between the attic floor and the roof. There is a side-flow FAU in the attic, and the condensate line comes from a tray (about 30" X 36") mounted below that. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

 

[WorthFlorida]

AC drain line has no pressure behind it to cause a weak joint to leak so I find it hard that it suddenly broke somewhere. Run a garden hose into the pipe to flush is clean. Over time slim builds up inside the pipe and can cause blockage. The high pressure from the garden hose may show where the leak is really occurring. You say that it is in the attic. As a last resort can you run a new PVC pipe from the drip pan to the outside wall of the home? Without pictures it is hard to make any recommendations.

At the drip pan there should be a Safe-T-Switch installed at the drip pan. Should the condensate back up, the float switch on the Safe-T-Switch will open the 24v's to the thermostat and shut the system off.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[KineticoUser]

I've attached pictures I took through the hole I cut in the 1st floor ceiling, but viewing them will show you the reason I didn't previously post them. The issue is more clear by touch than by vision. There is no room to see anything. Even holding my phone close doesn't help. The last picture shows where the old repair was done (behind the p-trap at the white area of the polybutylene pipe). The view from the attic just would be the three lines extending through the floor, and there is no moisture there. There are two large ducts, one on each side of the lines extending through the attic floor. https://1drv.ms/f/s!AnhFeJX0YorisG1TAV0uQw7k2Cui

I've read that chlorine in the city water can cause polybutylene to crack and leak over time, so that might be the problem, or the repipe plumbers may have cut into the line while putting in the copper. I have no desire to cut into the walls to confirm this, so I'll fix the problem myself. Water drips down the pipe (the leak is somewhere in the 2nd floor wall), and the insulation around the duct is soaked. Running water down that drain pipe will only result in more water being leaked into the wall and 1st floor ceiling, so I won't do that.

Replacing the pipe seems to make the most sense, but I'd appreciate suggestions from people who have done this type of work, so you can share what you've discovered works easiest and best. The lines come down the wall and then turn 90° when they reach the 1st floor ceiling. I'm thinking of using schedule 40 gray PVC conduit with 90° elbows on top and bottom. Do you have any suggestions on the best way to guide a 10' section of this PVC up from the bottom? How do you recommend I connect the PVC with the polybutylene?

 

[KineticoUser]

Thank you for the suggestion of the Sate-T-Switch. I'll have to check to see if one was installed and then install one if one hasn't been installed.

 

[WorthFlorida]

The last two pictures shows a copper pipe running parallel with the polybutylene pipe. It that the low pressure side of the AC unit? It looks like it's 1/2"? Is the high pressure side copper pipe in this mix? For a condensate line use a 3/4" PVC since it is flexible but you may have to put a hole in the wall or ceiling regardless. There is no easy solution running a semi rigid pipe but you may find it impossible to get it to couple because of different sizing between the PVC and polybutylene pipe. Also there may not be a compatible glue.

 

[KineticoUser]

Yes, the low pressure line is 1/2" copper. The high pressure side is 3/4" copper covered with black insulation. I was thinking of using the gray electrical conduit schedule 40 PVC, as I believe it may be more flexible and more durable in the wall than white PVC, along with the wide sweep 90° elbows. Since it enters the wall at the ceiling of the 1st floor, I figure I should be able to angle it into the opening. I was thinking of running a fish tape down from the attic and then use that to run a nylon rope which I could attach to the top of the PVC and pull it up. As far as couplings, I guess I could always go with Sharkbite U4016LF couplings.

 

[WorthFlorida]

The 1/2" copper is the high pressure side (liquid line) and the 3/4" is the low pressure. The low pressure side (suction line) is usually wrapped because to the touch it is cold and condensation can form. The high pressure side can still be warm after the compressor. This allows any heat to further dissipate before the refrigerant gets to the expansion valve. Besides, insulation around it is useless.

 

[KineticoUser]

Yes, you are right. I spent the day shredding branches in 108° temperature, and my mind apparently wasn't working very well... Or maybe the memory is just going as I get older.

I'm thinking of using a plumb line rather than fish tape to run the rope down the wall, as it may be less likely to hang up on something. I've got a thick nylon rope I plan to insert into the center of the PVC pipe, tape it up and then pull it upward (to keep it going straight rather than going off to the side and getting hung up). Do you have any thoughts on the process of running a new drain line?

 

[WorthFlorida]

As I said above without seeing it it hard to for suggestions other than install a pcv pipe from the drip pan straight out to the outside either through the wall or soffit.

 

[KineticoUser]

I'll have to go out to the house tomorrow and see if I can easily take the drain straight outside rather than go down through the wall. That would definitely eliminate any possible future leak problems.

 

[KineticoUser]

OK, here's a picture. I think I can come out under the eave and then down just behind the garage, though it may run in front of the bathroom window.
https://1drv.ms/i/s!AnhFeJX0YorisHQoq3we5YQiIIty

 

[KineticoUser]

OK, I've checked everything out, and it looks like I won't have a problem running a new drain line out the side and down the wall. It will need to exit between the two upper bathroom windows (not visible in the picture) and then follow the slope of the garage roof and down to the drain. I would love your recommendations for drilling a hole for the pipe to exit under the eave (10' up), as I'd be on a roof with a 45° slope. I guess I could build up one side to make it level, but am open to any suggestions you may have.

 

[KineticoUser]

I forgot to mention something. There are two lines feeding the single condensate drain line. One comes from the pan underneath the FAU (which is bone dry) and the other comes from inside the unit.

 

[Reach4]

I would love your recommendations for drilling a hole for the pipe to exit under the eave (10' up), as I'd be on a roof with a 45° slope. I guess I could build up one side to make it level, but am open to any suggestions you may have.

You want to know how to do what? Place a ladder on a 45-degree pitched roof, and drill a hole 10 ft above that roof? That can't be it.

 

[KineticoUser]

I'm going to borrow my neighbor's fully adjustable orchard ladder, allowing one side to be shorter than the other.

 

[Reach4]

Putting a ladder on a 45 degree roof sounds very dangerous to me.

I might try poking some 1/2 inch OD white polyethylene tubing down that existing tubing. Some electrical pulling compound could serve as a lubricant. Maybe try an electrical snake first to prove the path.

I wonder if it would make sense to pressure-test the existing tubing before going further. It would be a shame to find that the water leak was really from a roof leak after you do your external piping plan. If you used a compressor to provide the pressure, maybe you could hear a hiss at the existing leak, allowing you to just mend that hole.

I am not a pro.

 

[KineticoUser]

I'll have my tenant hold the ladder while I climb up.

I still feel the problem was caused by the copper repipe contractor, as the leaking condensate drain pipe goes down the wall between two bathrooms. Without tearing the walls apart, I won't be able to identify the exact location of the leak. I know it lies somewhere in that 2nd story wall, as it is dry above and wet below. It will be much easier to run a new line to the outside than to locate and fix the leak. I could possibly run a new line next to the old one, but I don't know what I'd encounter with that attempt.

 

[Reach4]

I'll have my tenant hold the ladder while I climb up.

Will your tenant be standing on the roof?

How will you drill the hole? 16 inch long drill bit? 5 ft long drill bit?

Could you drill from inside the attic outward?

Could you maybe fish a tube from the attic, through a wall, to a lavatory? https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/ac-condensate-line-re-connect.54389/

http://www.gotomahawk.com/products/...lties/brass-tubular/lavatory-branch-tailpiece

 

[KineticoUser]

Yes, my tenant will be standing on the roof. I can also attach the ladder to the eave fascia.

I'll use a standard spade bit to drill the hole through the 1X4 block between the trusses. As you can see from the picture, it gets very narrow out by the edge, so attempting to squeeze in would be a major challenge. I guess this is where your 5' long drill bit would come in handy, but I don't have access to a 5' long drill bit.

Your last option seems to add more complications, though it jogged my brain to consider another possible solution. Would it make sense to drill a hole through the vent pipe that goes through the attic and out the roof and then attach a saddle connection that I could connect the condensate drain to?

 

[KineticoUser]

Maybe I could just drill a hole in the 2" vent pipe, tap it and then attach a 3/4" male adapter, to which I could connect the condensate line.