Leak Detection for a water service

[Jsmallberries]

So underground meter/main shut off by sidewalk, main line from there to inside of garage main house shutoff. 18 year old PVC line. The little red indicator dial is still moving, with the garage shut off closed

1) One full rotation, of the low flow indicator takes 7 minutes, Any idea on how much water is leaking

2) Leak detection companies in my area, one wants $350, the other $250, pay up even if they don't find the leak, is that standard operating procedure? Doesn't feel right, to pay for a service that isn't completed?

3) Saw on u tube, homemade leak detector, made with pipe, styrofoam cup and a stethoscope, I'll try anything at this point.

I would dig it up myself but the line runs near an oak tree and under a 2 car concrete driveway with patio paver extensions. To run a new line, its the same problematic terrain. Where it needs to connect on the other side of the driveway, 4 foot wide pavers all the way up to where the line enters the garage, it was plumbed inside a concrete block wall

Any suggestions appreciated

 

[Terry]

You have a PVC line, so most of it I would guess will be fine. I find it saves a lot of time on a repair to hire someone out to locate the leak. They aren't 100% but darn near. They have spotted leaks for me that I never would have found without their help. It's worth the money if you are repairing the leak. If you are replacing the entire line anyway, then maybe not. Have you priced doing an entire line though?

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Jadnashua]

If the pipe is sized properly, you can run in any which way you want to avoid trees, driveways, etc., even around to the back of the house.

Way back when, my sister worked for the local water utility, and at one time, she did leak detection for them. She could locate a leak within a foot or so even way beneath paved surfaces. It's a combination of good equipment, and a good operator - then, they can pinpoint a leak within a foot or so.

 

[Jsmallberries]

Definitely need some advice here

Since the main is on the opposite side of the house, the replacement would have to go under the driveway and pavers, then run up under the pavers along the side of the driveway, then into the garage, into/under the block wall inside the garage ... see photos

To make things worse, the leak detector on the meter runs one full rotation at 7.5 minutes with main shut off in the garage open, and 10.5 minutes with it closed. indicating to me a leak inside and outside. Am I reading this correctly?

The inside plumbed with CPVC, run under the slab at the time of construction.

So seems like a better option is to pay for leak detection and spot repair as needed, unless you have another idea.

 

[Reach4]

To make things worse, the leak detector on the meter runs one full rotation at 7.5 minutes with main shut off in the garage open, and 10.5 minutes with it closed. indicating to me a leak inside and outside. Am I reading this correctly?

It sounds right to me.

You could ask the city what a rotation of the leak detector corresponds to in gallons. Alternatively, fill a 5 gallon bucket, and see how that increases the leak detector movement.

 

[Atomic1]

$300 would be a steal for leak detection in my region. They usually use acoustic methods to find the leak, and most often dont have any problems. While it seems wrong for them to require payment regardless, there are always unforseen issues and they are spending time out there.....I'd give them slack.

Whatever you do, dont let it go for much longer. If you have a sinkhole open up beneath a footing, you're done for.

 

[Dj2]

I would replace the line.

I would not use a method that uses high pressure water to go across under the slab, because of erosion.

Cutting the concrete along where it meets the sidewalk then back fill is one option.

If you don't want to replace the line, paying for an accurate location of a leak is money well spent. Get more estimates if you decide to go this route.

 

[Jsmallberries]

Trying to trouble shoot this, so with the garage shut off valve , water heater and toilets closed, first reading 1.5 minutes for the last digit to move one digit up. 2nd try it took 20 minutes, 3rd try 14 minutes???????? I don't see how I am getting different readings. Wouldn't a leak from a pipe stay consistant

Then with garage shutoff and water heater opened, with toilets shut-offs still closed, 7 minutes for the last digit to change one number

Any advice on that?
How much water being lost by the last digit changing every 7 minutes ( see close up of meter face)

 

[Jadnashua]

If one is to believe what's written on the meter...it reads out in gallons and tenths, with the small rotating cross 0.05g. A tenth of a gallon in 7-minutes isn't huge, but still should be able to locate it.

 

[Jsmallberries]

I called the utility company, to confirm what it means as far as water loss, they kept insisting the last digit is painted on, and doesn't move, finally figured I have the newer meter style, so thanks Jadnashua, they confirmed 1/10th of a gallon

Update, water to house closed, 14 minutes for 1/10 of a gallon rotation, 7 minutes with shut off open, leaving toilets closed, Tells me equal sized leaks one inside, one outside.

From my calculations it is 20.57 gallons a day, 24/7, need to get it fixed. Anyway to do this myself, might be worth buying the equipment? since I have 20 year old CPVC, with heavy metal fitting at the end, that stuff gets very brittle as it ages, don't like it

If I'm looking at $350 every time I spring a leak

 

[Jadnashua]

Well, being in FL, your frost level isn't an issue, but I assume there is a minimum depth required so it isn't damaged easily by simply planting a flower!

To avoid going underneath so much stuff, you could just run the new pipe around and enter the house at a different location. Use flexible stuff on a reel so you'll only have one joint at each end, and just abandon the existing line.

 

[Michael Young]

If your main line is PVC, you may want to see if the inside diameter is big enough to slide 3/4" pex right through the old water pipe. My house was piped with 1-1/4 PVC. I didn't even have to dig (except at the meter). I just slid the brand new pex right through the old line.

 

[Michael Young]

I bought one of these from Spartan Tools. It does a pretty good job, but the splitter head is HUGE. It's a very cool way to replace water lines without having to dig. But I think it would work better if the splitter head was just slightly larger than the diameter of the pile.

 

[Jsmallberries]

Turns out the garage shut off was not closing completely, so now only leaking with it open, so leak is on the home side of the shut off.

I think I located the leak, at the main shut off in the garage. The ground directly outside is damp, and does not dry, even after a week of sunny dry days. A moisture meter confirms, reading high moisture content just below the house side of shut-off in the garage. There is also an outdoor hose bib, 2 feet directly above the shut-off, on the exterior wall.Enough evidence to start breaking open the wall

Assuming it leaking where the hose bib attached inside the block wall, since it's your typical CPVC unsupported with heavy metal end fittings

I started breaking open the wall, The hose bib connection to the man line and the incoming shut off are all encased in solid concrete inside the block wall, just in this area where all the plumbing is. I think this must have been one of those cavities that get filled where a re-bar comes through the slab to tie in the slab to the block wall, hurricane code.

They simply buried all the plumbing, nothing is accessible, see pics. That close up of the interior wall, is showing the top of the pipe going to the hose bib. Where do I go from here??

 

[Jsmallberries]

Had a leak detection company come out, unable to locate leak, just too small. Arrow to arrow in 30 seconds See photo

They pressurized the pipes from an interior supply line, still too small to find.

So, watch for leak indicator at a minimum, to double in speed. I initially found the indication of a leak by accident, while looking for reasons the main-shut off, in ground box was always filled with water. That was a grading issue...

 

[sajesak]

So underground meter/main shut off by sidewalk, main line from there to inside of garage main house shutoff. 18 year old PVC line. The little red indicator dial is still moving, with the garage shut off closed

1) One full rotation, of the low flow indicator takes 7 minutes, Any idea on how much water is leaking

2) Leak detection companies in my area, one wants $350, the other $250, pay up even if they don't find the leak, is that standard operating procedure? Doesn't feel right, to pay for a service that isn't completed?

3) Saw on u tube, homemade leak detector, made with pipe, styrofoam cup and a stethoscope, I'll try anything at this point.

I would dig it up myself but the line runs near an oak tree and under a 2 car concrete driveway with patio paver extensions. To run a new line, its the same problematic terrain Water Leak Detection Specialists Slough. Where it needs to connect on the other side of the driveway, 4 foot wide pavers all the way up to where the line enters the garage, it was plumbed inside a concrete block wall

Any suggestions appreciated

A customer of mine has been told by the water board that they have a leak somewhere in the house due to rising costs from the water meter. They came round to check(turned off stop cock into house and checked meter which stopped turning) This is as far as they went saying not there responsibility. Now her neighbour had something similar a few years back but then the water board guy apparently had some apparatus that he went over the floor boards with to see where the leak was coming form, but this particular guy said he didn't have this equipmet but your plumber(me) should have. Now over the years my leak detector has been a hammer and bolster to lift floorboards and check by eye I guess i should move into the 21st Century and look into this. Does anyone have any recommendations at all? Ive seen some that can plug in to your mobile for infra-red and also stand alone equipment. Now i don't get these jobs very often in fact they are quite rare so im not looking to spend hundreds but was was wondering at a small cost if theres any that are good or do you need to spend big bucks for something like this?