Lead toilet flange and bend

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Edal

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Replacing leaking toilet. Pulled 1 of 2 floors supporting toilet. The flange coming out of floor seems to be lead? I had to tap it away from flange to get flange off, looks like it was soldered in a couple spots. It connects to a copper pipe in floor. Is it ok to put back flange on new floor & form the lead pipe back over flange? Also how good is this lead pipe? Should I take 2nd subfloor out to inspect? ...new ... I took out the second floor & the lead pipe is cracked. Picture added showing going to copper pipe. What is correct fix.
 

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Jadnashua

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If you're lucky enough to be able to bend the lead back without it splitting or cracking, yes, you can reuse it and the old ring. The odds of that happening aren't all that good I think.

An alternative would be to cut that riser off just below where the lead connects to the copper. You can then get a banded coupler with the proper size and use a riser out of PVC or ABS, depending on what's more readily available in your area. Get a flange that has a stainless steel ring so it won't corrode.
 

Edal

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If you're lucky enough to be able to bend the lead back without it splitting or cracking, yes, you can reuse it and the old ring. The odds of that happening aren't all that good I think.

An alternative would be to cut that riser off just below where the lead connects to the copper. You can then get a banded coupler with the proper size and use a riser out of PVC or ABS, depending on what's more readily available in your area. Get a flange that has a stainless steel ring so it won't corrode.
I cut the lead off at copper pipes The coupler is made for one side copper other PVC. The flange is PVC? How is this?
Thanks for the reply.
 

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Jadnashua

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That will work, but keep in mind, an all-plastic flange won't hold the toilet bolts as well as one with a SS ring. If you seal the base of the toilet (as required in many places) to the floor, that helps stabilize the toilet. You don't want to put a lot of stress on the bolts. Snug is fine. If it gets caulked, that helps hold it in place so it won't move, potentially breaking the flange. Push the toilet down on the wax ring with your weight, then snug up the bolts...don't use the bolts to do it, especially with a plastic flange.
 

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That will work, but keep in mind, an all-plastic flange won't hold the toilet bolts as well as one with a SS ring. If you seal the base of the toilet (as required in many places) to the floor, that helps stabilize the toilet. You don't want to put a lot of stress on the bolts. Snug is fine. If it gets caulked, that helps hold it in place so it won't move, potentially breaking the flange. Push the toilet down on the wax ring with your weight, then snug up the bolts...don't use the bolts to do it, especially with a plastic flange.
Thanks , I will take your advice & use the SS ring. Im 12'' from my copper to pvc coupler to flange & will need 1/4'' slope. So If i make a 1/4'' slope, wont my closet bend be tilted 1/4'' at the floor where the flange fastens?
 

Reach4

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So If i make a 1/4'' slope, wont my closet bend be tilted 1/4'' at the floor where the flange fastens?
A closet bend would be more like 88 degrees than 90 -- not that I measured it.
 

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Thank you
I have read so much on plumbing this last week, learned much. One thing I learned go to a regular plumbing supply store for parts, not Home Depot or Lowes. I'm almost done figuring out my toilet drain. When looking at what to use below my flange to make it right. I want to use a spigot into my floor flange to/ pvc pipe/into my coupler to copper. My question is when looking at elbows, some are listed spigot x hub and others hub x spigot. Are these not the same? They have different pricing.
 

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Hub means it accepts a pipe or equiv.
Spigot means it will go into a hub, so it is the same size as a pipe.
Inside is a third kind that goes on the inside of a schedule 40 pipe.

hub x spigot.
My question is when looking at elbows, some are listed spigot x hub and others hub x spigot. Are these not the same?


elbows-c48072clhd43-64_145.jpg
This one is called a 4 in. x 3 in. PVC DWV 90 Degree Spigot x Hub Street Closet Elbow. Can I necessarily infer that since 4 is listed before 3, that the spigot is 4 because it is listed first? I am not sure, but it works OK for this one.

It would be good if using 3 inch pipe. You would could put either a 4 inch hub or a 4 inch inside closet flange on it. If you use the 4 inch hub, you have to leave room around the top. Many can either go inside a 4 inch or outside of a 3 inch pipe. Those are called 4 in. x 3 in. closet flanges.
 
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Jadnashua

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FWIW, drain fittings account for the required slope, and aren't actually the exact value that's listed. Because the cement also melts the plastic, prior to it resolidifying, there's also a (very slight) amount of tweak you can make.
 

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I have read so much on plumbing this last week, learned much. One thing I learned go to a regular plumbing supply store for parts, not Home Depot or Lowes. I'm almost done figuring out my toilet drain. When looking at what to use below my flange to make it right. I want to use a spigot into my floor flange to/ pvc pipe/into my coupler to copper. My question is when looking at elbows, some are listed spigot x hub and others hub x spigot. Are these not the same? They have different pricing.
..
With the room I have I'm going to have 3" spigot x 3" hub street elbow, with the spigot end going into my closet flange, if thats ok? if so I have only one other decision. Use the 4" closet flange that will have the 3" spigot inside, or get a 3" closet flange that fits over the spigot? Just thinking better flow with the 3" outside.
 

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With the room I have I'm going to have 3" spigot x 3" hub street elbow, with the spigot end going into my closet flange, if thats ok? if so I have only one other decision. Use the 4" closet flange that will have the 3" spigot inside, or get a 3" closet flange that fits over the spigot? Just thinking better flow with the 3" outside.
That is OK. Yes, the outside flange is significantly better if you use 3 inch sticking up.

A 4" spigot x 3" hub closet flange is not much bigger. You cut the height as needed. I am not sure what you meant by your third sentence ("Use the...").

When you glue, you need to get it right the first time. A plumber is experienced, and has no problem with that. With 4 inch, there are some nice no-glue flanges including ones with a stainless steel ring. Redo the flooring some day, and you can remove and replace easily.
 
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Edal

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That is OK. Yes, the outside flange is significantly better if you use 3 inch sticking up.

A 4" spigot x 3" hub closet flange is not much bigger. You cut the height as needed. I am not sure what you meant by your third sentence ("Use the...").

When you glue, you need to get it right the first time. A plumber is experienced, and has no problem with that. With 4 inch, there are some nice no-glue flanges including ones with a stainless steel ring. Redo the flooring some day, and you can remove and replace easily.
So you are telling me if I use the 4" spigot x 3" hub, cut it as needed. Then I can glue my flange directly on 4" spigot, it or use a no glue flange.
 

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With the 4" end sticking up, you have the option of using an internal fit flange, or one that fits on the outside. You should not really consider using an internal flange on a 3" pipe, though, even though they do make them. The largest toilet available has a 3" trap and pathway, most are slightly over 2", but lots of toilet designs require a fairly sharp turn from the outlet of the toilet to the drain...larger diameter is better. Some toilets turn the waste before it gets to the drain and it's more of a straight shot down which means fewer chances of clogging, and if it does, an easier path for the toilet auger to try to clean it out.
 

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So you are telling me if I use the 4" spigot x 3" hub, cut it as needed. Then I can glue my flange directly on 4" spigot, it or use a no glue flange.
Yes.
 

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There's a limit on how much you can cut that fitting. You do want your flange's hub to be fully seated over the pipe. Same issue if you choose an inside one, it must get down in and have enough straight pipe to seal prior to the curve.
 

Edal

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There's a limit on how much you can cut that fitting. You do want your flange's hub to be fully seated over the pipe. Same issue if you choose an inside one, it must get down in and have enough straight pipe to seal prior to the curve.
How much can I cut off the spigot, Its cut in picture to 3/4" also I will need to cut flange the same. Will 3/4" be ok? I have little space as the old lead bend was right below flange.
 

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Reach4

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How much can I cut off the spigot, Its cut in picture to 3/4" also I will need to cut flange the same. Will 3/4" be ok? I have little space as the old lead bend was right below flange.
Would that put the top of the bend at the surface of the finished floor, or something lower?

I don't think there is a no-glue flange that could go onto what you picture, and I am not sure what glued flange would work.

This is one of the shorter no-glue flanges -- an outside compresson flange.
https://www.siouxchief.com/docs/def...cast-iron-closet-flange.pdf?sfvrsn=64b13a37_6 Jones Stephens Closet Flange 4X2 135-001 would

I don't think those would fit your situation.

Here is a snip from https://www.charlottepipe.com/Documents/DimensionalCatalogs/Plastic_Pipe_Fittings_DC-DWV(609).pdf page 38

img_2.png
 
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Edal

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Would that put the top of the bend at the surface of the finished floor, or something lower?

I don't think there is a no-glue flange that could go onto what you picture, and I am not sure what glued flange would work.

This is one of the shorter no-glue flanges -- an outside compresson flange.
https://www.siouxchief.com/docs/def...cast-iron-closet-flange.pdf?sfvrsn=64b13a37_6 Jones Stephens Closet Flange 4X2 135-001 would

I don't think those would fit your situation.

Here is a snip from https://www.charlottepipe.com/Documents/DimensionalCatalogs/Plastic_Pipe_Fittings_DC-DWV(609).pdf page 38

View attachment 52132
The closet bend 330 will also be to tall. Pictures shown with cut spigot end i cut off still being to tall, the center of the bend to top in picture is 4".
shown is a dummy floorplate that will be finished floor height
 

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Jadnashua

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Ideally, you'll have enough depth to bottom out the socket of the flange you install over the end of the spigot. The socket is slightly tapered (which is why you can't dry fit the stuff...it's like driving a wedge) and when you add the cement, it literally melts the plastic so you can insert the fitting fully. When the solvent evaporates, it gets welded together. They're designed for have that be the full depth of the socket.

I'll leave it to one of the pros as to what they think...how much straight pipe is left for you to get a socket on before it gets hung up on the curve?

Note, by design, the ideal location of the toilet flange is on TOP of the finished flooring. Yes, lots of people put them on the subflooring because it's easier, but that's not where they are designed to go.
 
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