Lead bend drain pinholes!? Need to replace/fix leaking toilet waste pipe.

Discussion in 'Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice' started by Jeff Little, Apr 3, 2021.

  1. Jeff Little

    Jeff Little New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2021
    Location:
    Toronto
    Hi folks, this is my first post here.

    I have a leak in a toilet drain.
    The house is 82 or 84 years old and this is guaranteed to be 100% original.

    I'm assuming a popular fix is to remove the ferrule and get a Fernco Donut -> ABS solution in place.
    Or is it easier (and is there enough of the ferrule) to just cut it, melt/scrape/clean the lead off the ferrule, and use a coupler to attach the ABS piping. (no-hub or flexible?)

    The pipe runs pretty straight to the toilet flange, but not 100% (ie, the ferrule/pipe comes out of the cast hub just a little bit off center.)
    Also the bend up to the toilet is a little flattened to accommodate the joist, so that might cause me some fitment issues with solid 4" ABS. Maybe 3" ABS would be better to aid clearance?

    Is there anything I'm missing?

    Other than the advice on the best course to fix this, what would cause pinholes on the sides (top 1/3) of the pipe? I'm curious to know if this is common?
     

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  2. WorthFlorida

    WorthFlorida The wife is still training me.

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2009
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Orlando, Florida
    If it's not gold, all metal oxides. Lead may take 100 years but eventually everything degrades. The top part of the pipe is exposed to more air (oxygen) where as the lower part may stay wet longer or even a small amount of water laying on the bottom.

    50 years ago I worked for New York telephone and was taught how to solder lead pipe. Before polyethylene insulated cable, lead pipe was the standard for telephone cables. The joints are hand made to fit and any impurities can get in the lead can cause it to degrade sooner.
     
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  4. Sylvan

    Sylvan Still learning

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    Occupation:
    plumbing - fire suppression - boiler inspector
    Location:
    New York
  5. Sylvan

    Sylvan Still learning

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    plumbing - fire suppression - boiler inspector
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  6. Jeff Little

    Jeff Little New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2021
    Location:
    Toronto
    I didn't think about the air space above, but it makes sense.
    I scraped off a bit of the crust and it's more than a pinhole.
    It looks more like a frost heave where it's corroding and shoving a mini volcano crater outwards.

    Off topic, but +1 for telco!
    I've had various tours of COs around Ontario.
    I remember seeing lots of lead shielded cables in the vault, as well as the air dryers they used to pipe air into them to keep the moisture out.
    (My favorite tour was one of the last remaining step by step offices in Ontario in 1996. Digital trunks for backhaul/longdistance but stepper local. Even 5 digit local dialing still worked but I don't think many people bothered with the shortcut.)

    :)
     
  7. Jeff Little

    Jeff Little New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2021
    Location:
    Toronto
    +1 for keeping the ferrule.
    I won't have a problem finding the no-hub, but not so sure about the cast iron bend.
    (local supply shops might be able to order it, but not sure about stocking it.)

    If I end up with plastic, I might have to use 3" to avoid the tight joist.
    Would it be acceptable to use 3" ABS into a flexible Fernco clamped onto the ferrule? (use strap hanger for extra support maybe)
    https://www.fernco.com/dimensional-drawings/plumbing/flexible-couplings/stock-couplings-1056/1056-43

    Noob question, but are you melting the lead off the ferrule or mechanically knifing it back or other?

    thanks for the advice.
     
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  8. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

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    Aug 17, 2004
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    Bothell, Washington
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  9. Jeff Little

    Jeff Little New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2021
    Location:
    Toronto
    +1 Terry.
    I saw your other posts on this topic, I know it's been beaten to death!

    Given that my the pipe/ferrule isn't coming out of the cast hub dead straight, does the ABS/Donut method have any play in it to match the a couple degrees of skew?
     
  10. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2004
    Occupation:
    Plumber
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    You might do Sylvan's method with the coupling to the ferrule.
     
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  11. Tuttles Revenge

    Tuttles Revenge In the Trades

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2014
    OH.. I was thinking fernco/mission bands being off true.. Not 100% certain about Fernco insert Donuts.


    According to the installation instructions for no hub bands you can cock no hub bands up to 5° off true and be within spec.
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2021
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