Lazy TOTO Entrada flush

[Archibald Tuttle]

Got to admit I'm perplexed. this toilet had been flushing fine for 3 years but it's gone lazy. tenants complained it was not flushing to the point of leaking, i.e. spilling over, although I see no evidence of a serious leak or major overflow and the bowl is clean water. first snaked the toilet itself to make sure nothing was caught in the bend. then pulled the toilet. It is piped in 3" PVC that drops about a foot from the flange to an elbow, 3 feet more or less horizontal with 1/4" pitch to a tee wye on a vented 3" stack. I snaked the three feet to make sure there was nothing before the stack. I can see through the access that the stack is unimpeded and water flush flows smoothly to the stack from the toilet, but the flush action is lazy. not a convincing whirlpool but a seemingly slow fill (for a 3" flush valve) and then it declines with aching slowness to a weak vacuum glug glug grab.

I thought maybe the fluidmaster resilient rubber 'wax' ring might have been leaking a tiny bit of air that might have weakened the vacuum although no water coming out so not any massive seal failure, but I actually sealed it both sides with silicone to test this and no difference. I tried to fill the bowl a little fuller before flushing although there doesn't seem to be any problem with the bowl refill. that is really tough because you don't have to add much water before you get the identical weak flush. there is no obvious obstruction to the flush valve. I don't think the tenants have been in the tank and dropped any cleaning product in, but I suppose it is remotely possible something like a wipe has gone past the flush valve and it's is slowing the flush. I don't have other of these toilets in service so I can't make a comparison. Should I anticipate the stronger typical whirlpool from an entrada or . . . ?. I can take a movie of the flush. I should have when I was there and can append tomorrow but just looking for anyone who has had experience with this toilet. thanks, Brian

 

[Reach4]

Does your second sentence say that the water rose in the bowl to almost the rim? That would certainly indicate clog.

Try pouring water from a 5-gallon bucket, or bigger, into the bowl from as high as you can, and as fast as you dare. Hope the deluge washes the obstruction through. I am suspecting that your closet auger may have gone past/through the partial clog.

You could also try vigorous plunging, but if there is a blockage below the toilet, that can blow out the wax.

If that doesn't fix it, consider replacing the bowl. I am not a pro.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Terry]

Check the siphon jet at the bottom of the bowl. If that gets plugged, the siphon doesn't start.
That is the small hole at the bottom toward the front of the bowl.

 

[Archibald Tuttle]

Does your second sentence say that the water rose in the bowl to almost the rim? That would certainly indicate clog.

Try pouring water from a 5-gallon bucket, or bigger, into the bowl from as high as you can, and as fast as you dare. Hope the deluge washes the obstruction through. I am suspecting that your closet auger may have gone past/through the partial clog.

You could also try vigorous plunging, but if there is a blockage below the toilet, that can blow out the wax.

If that doesn't fix it, consider replacing the bowl. I am not a pro.

No, no threat to rise to rim when empty but it's just lazy. in fact just adding a third of the flush trying to raise the level in the bowl before flushing which helps with toilets that are sensitive to level before flush actually cause the siphon to start and flush but lazily so it doesn't matter if its a full flush. perhaps as @Terry points out there is some clog to the siphon jet. I'm assuming i might want to back flush with compressed air?

 

[Reach4]

I am not sure what " in fact just adding a third of the flush trying to raise the level in the bowl before flushing which helps with toilets that are sensitive to level before flush actually cause the siphon to start and flush but lazily so it doesn't matter if its a full flush" is saying.

But if you are saying that you can add water to the bowl after refill, and it will stay up for a couple minutes, say so. That would indicate that the bowl refill was insufficient.

 

[Archibald Tuttle]

I am not sure what " in fact just adding a third of the flush trying to raise the level in the bowl before flushing which helps with toilets that are sensitive to level before flush actually cause the siphon to start and flush but lazily so it doesn't matter if its a full flush" is saying.

But if you are saying that you can add water to the bowl after refill, and it will stay up for a couple minutes, say so. That would indicate that the bowl refill was insufficient.

No, some toilets are very sensitive to water level before the flush and if there is anything up with the refill tube or if evaporation has lowered the level they don't flush well. so I was indicating that I first added a little water to make sure the standing water level was absolutely as full as the bowl could be without pushing any water over the weir.

 

[Archibald Tuttle]

Check the siphon jet at the bottom of the bowl. If that gets plugged, the siphon doesn't start.
That is the small hole at the bottom toward the front of the bowl.

Terry, I thought I posted this already but surprised to see its not here.

Problem turned out to be a couple plastic dental floss holders in the porcelain trap/flushway. they obviously just pushed to the side when I augured the toilet but then flopped back into the path of flow causing the less than aggressive flushing.

I saw nothing when I pulled the toilet but on the return visit they had finally made their way to the outlet of the toilet laying crossways where the synthetic ring and closet flange presented a lip to hang up on.

Gotta love those tenants who insist they didn't put anything but toilet paper in there. But this episode did reveal a problem with toilet clear equipment. the longest on market toilet augers (nominally 6') are not of course 6 effective feet. kind of like male measurement if you will. Because half the length remains in the handle you only get 3' of effective snake which, given the longer trapways of low flow toilets does not actually reach through.

In a way this provided a convenience in that I was unable to clear the second clog, pulled the toilet and finally found the offending debris which allowed me to present the evidence to the tenant. But for most normal clogs where folks know enough not to put plastic items in the toilet I'd prefer additional length given the changes in toilet design. At least what I find goes from a convenient form factor that can provide 3' of actually reach into the flush pathway to a 25 or 50 inconvenient mess. Am I missing some product that strikes a balance?