Kohler vs. American Standard toilets

[Jcvb]

I recently bought a toilet for my downstairs bathroom - American Standard
SpaceSaver Cadet 3 FloWise WaterSense High-Performance Elongated Toilet Kit from Lowes. It is a water sense toilet that is 1.28 gpf. I'm looking for another toilet because I need one that will flush the solids with just 1 flush. I'm moving the A.S. upstairs. I have heard that the TOTO are the best toilets, however they are a bit pricey. My next option are the Kohler toilets. I am a petite 5'2" person so having a rim height b/w 14-15" is ideal and the only toilet in that height is the Wellworth. What are the cons and pros on the Wellworth? It is still the class five technology. Will it do its job of flushing the skid marks? What other Kohler toilets are recommended? I'm guessing class six technology is better than class five? If another American Standard is preferred what is it? The Champion? I want to buy the right toilet this 2nd time around. Any suggestions and recommendation is appreciated!

 

[Micp879]

My parents recently had a contractor supplied class 5 Kohler Wellworth installed in their master bath. It was one of the biggest pieces of garbage I have ever dealt with. The class 5 is notorious for not having good bowl wash, and the one my parents had clogged practically weekly. It goes to the top of my list of garbage toilets. It made their american standard champion seem like an amazing toilet, and that is saying something. Thankfully the contractors yanked out the wellworth.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Runs with Bison]

I'm looking for another toilet because I need one that will flush the solids with just 1 flush. I'm moving the A.S. upstairs. I have heard that the TOTO are the best toilets, however they are a bit pricey. My next option are the Kohler toilets. I am a petite 5'2" person so having a rim height b/w 14-15" is ideal and the only toilet in that height is the Wellworth.

I'm using three Toto EcoDrake (1.28 gpf) elongated bowl with CEFIONTECT. The bowl rim height is 14-5/8" according to specs. You give up a little in flushing power with the shorter height compared to ADA, but so far I have no problems.

I've been very pleased with the bowl wash as well.

Will it do its job of flushing the skid marks?

I haven't gotten many skid marks with these CEFIONTECT bowls but I only installed the first one a month ago. When I have seen them (on the bottom siphon ledge twice) they've disappeared in the subsequent (#1) flush.

 

[FloridaOrange]

My brother has a Kohler with the "Class 5" flush system. It flushes good but has no bowl wash.

I have a new AS Champion 4 that flushes like a...champ, with a very good bowl wash. Champion 4's also have their "Everclean" coating which is similar to Tot's CEFIONTECT. Some have said that I will have issues with the valve seal, we'll see.

 

[Jcvb]

This is helpful, but it still has me confused as to which toilet to get now. I hear mixed reviews with Wellworth. Some love it and some hate it. Is the Cimarron or the Highline any better? Or should I try another American Standard toilet like the Champion 4? TOTO toilets are in the $300 range aren't they? I've done all my research, but still can't decide. I don't want to make another mistake in buying a bad toilet. I need more help!

 

[Terry]

I sell and install all of the brands.
We deal in thousands per year.

If you don't want to have a mistake, then get the TOTO.
If you like to gamble, then ask the guys running around the aisles at the big box stores.

A big part of my job is replacing and or repairing what they sell.
That's assuming that you can get parts for them.

The Kohler will plug more often,
We had our share of defects with them too.
It would be nice if they leak tested them "before" they boxed them.
American Standard should be pulled from the box and inspected before being put in the cart. We are at 20% returns on our American Standard porcelain.
When I was last at a big box, they had a wobbly American Standard bowl in the aisle.

The Toto Dalton works better then the Cimarron, has better bowl wash, and as a plumber, I can sell it for $195
I don't know why I don't sell more.

I sell a ton of the Drakes.

 

[Jadnashua]

The Toto Drake is a fine toilet, and should be able to find for around $250. The Dalton also works and is less than $200. Shop around, not everyone sells them at list price.

As in many things, style is part of the cost, but quality costs too. Toto has a huge line, and many styles to choose from, and at least on some, a bunch of colors. Color costs more, too, since it is easier to have an uneven coating of glaze, and that will show with the white porcelain - so a white or clear glaze, while important, isn't as big a deal.

 

[Jcvb]

So my best bet is a TOTO toilet? Either the Drake or the Dalton? I tried to locate the Dalton, but I can't seem to find it on the TOTO site. Does the Drake come in a rim height between 14-15"? I'll check out some local places that sell TOTO toilets. I just a need a white toilet that flushes well and cleans the bowl at it too and having a rim height of 14"-15" preferrably. I'm hoping I can find some in the $200 range. Style isn't a big concern for me. Thanks.

 

[Terry]

The Drake is 14-1/2"
The Dalton is 16-1/8"

 

[Gary Swart]

A Toto dealer should be able to get you a Dalton without much problem. It seems to be a very good basic toilet, in fact I am planning on getting one for my own basement bathroom.

 

[Jcvb]

Just one last question... I called around and found 2 places that have the Drake and for a decent price of $222. However, they have a tank that's 1.28 gpf and 1.6 gpf. I bought a 1.28 gpf with American Standard Cadet 3 flowise high efficiency. Should I just go with the 1.6? Or is the TOTO Drake 1.28 gpf will be good and clean the bowl and everything in it? Thanks so much for helping me. I was going to shine TOTO cause I thought they were outrageously expensive, but actually for the Drake it's not.

 

[Runs with Bison]

Just one last question... I called around and found 2 places that have the Drake and for a decent price of $222. However, they have a tank that's 1.28 gpf and 1.6 gpf. I bought a 1.28 gpf with American Standard Cadet 3 flowise high efficiency. Should I just go with the 1.6? Or is the TOTO Drake 1.28 gpf will be good and clean the bowl and everything in it? Thanks so much for helping me. I was going to shine TOTO cause I thought they were outrageously expensive, but actually for the Drake it's not.

That sounds about right on price without the CEFIONTECT or seat. I bought a different seat separately, went with sanaglos, and including wax ring, new johnny bolts and all taxes I ended up at almost exactly $300/ea for the whole project. I waited for distributor delivery though rather than paying freight.

The 1.28 gpf toilet can be converted to a 1.6 gpf by changing the flapper if I understand correctly.

 

[Jadnashua]

Get the 1.28, it's a cheap fix to make it use 1.6g if you want (just change the flapper valve - less than $10), or just hold the handle down a short while (but this could empty the tank and use like 3g if you hold it too long).

 

[Jcvb]

Get the 1.28, it's a cheap fix to make it use 1.6g if you want (just change the flapper valve - less than $10), or just hold the handle down a short while (but this could empty the tank and use like 3g if you hold it too long).

Really? You can just change the flapper valve and it'll be a 1.6 gpf? Interesting. If I get the 1.28 tank, will it compromise the flushing power? There are just too many options to decide on. Are TOTO parts easily found at the big name stores like Home Depot and Lowes?

 

[Terry]

Lowes carries parts for Toto.
They work fine with 1.28 anyway.

And many water departments are giving rebates for those.

 

[Princess]

I saw two Totos in the restroom at a local restaurant yesterday. I was
totally impressed with the water level in the bowls and have well they
flushed. I don't know which model they were but I flushed both of them
several times just to watch. I was pretty impressed..I'm also looking to
replace mine and I've decided it will be a Toto.

 

[Jcvb]

I saw two Totos in the restroom at a local restaurant yesterday. I was
totally impressed with the water level in the bowls and have well they
flushed. I don't know which model they were but I flushed both of them
several times just to watch. I was pretty impressed..I'm also looking to
replace mine and I've decided it will be a Toto.

I went to Warehouse Discount Center to check out the TOTO toilets. I think I am going to get the TOTO Drake regular height. I was told that the Drake were originally made for commercial use in hotels so it had to be durable and robust because people will shove anything down a toilet. I'm going with the 1.6 gpf. I was also told that there are no real complaints on the 1.28 gpf tanks, but to be safe and for the flushing power I need for a guest bathroom I'm going with the bigger tank. Thanks everyone for all your feedback and help! I would have ended up with a Kohler toilet.

 

[Jadnashua]

The tanks are identical on the 1.6 and 1.28g flush...the difference(s) are in the flapper closes quicker on the lower flush and (I think) the fill valve may put more water into the bowl so it fills while putting the lower amount into the tank (there's no valve in the bowl to say it's full...only in the tank, so the balance must be proper so both fill at the same time). Most modern toilets use a tank that holds a fair amount more water than gets used in the flush...this extra height gives more oomph (like a water tower) when you flush.

 

[Terry]

Just got an email this morning on an American Standard tank.
It's spraying water.
One more manufacturers defect we need to take care of next week.

I don't know how the hardware stores do it.
Of course, they have a "return" desk.

 

[jp_over]

This is an old thread but still informative for me. I ended up getting 2 of the Toto Drake II models for replacement of builder/contractor-grade junk.

Thanks!

Joe