Kohler 84499 1B1X Kit

Discussion in 'Toilet Forum discussions' started by Bimwad, Aug 21, 2020.

  1. Bimwad

    Bimwad New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2006
    I have one of these kits, which is Kohler's answer to keeping a lot of their old, low-profile toilets in service, due to arrive shortly.

    It is going into a K3397 San Raphael whose fill valve lever pivot snapped, as they tend to do. I've already repaired this once, with a top cap salvaged from another unit that was damaged, but individual parts are now harder to come by.

    The question is whether it's worthwhile, or advisable to also replace the flush valve with the one that's bundled with the kit?

    Kohler support said it's included mainly as a convenience and for expanded compatibility, rather than as a necessity. But if the design, with the flat flapper, is superior, then I'll go ahead and replace it.

    There are no other apparent issues with the existing, original flush valve or rounded flapper, at least at the moment.

    I know there are other, cheaper replacement fill valve alternatives, as well as hacks/retrofits, but for expediency's sake, the Kohler kit was the fastest and most convenient option. Hopefully, it will turn out to have a larger proportion of metal parts, as some pictures suggest, and make its higher price worthwhile.
     
  2. Marlinman

    Marlinman In the Trades

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2018
    Location:
    Florida
    I would replace everything. The older rounded ball never lasted long in Florida water. The new flapper seems to be much better.
     
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  4. Bimwad

    Bimwad New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2006
    Thanks, I did end up replacing everything.

    The screws and tabs on the flush valve were a bit fiddly, compared to the twist-lock feet of the old valve, but I got it set properly and evenly.

    While the new fill valve does have a greater proportion of brass parts, I'm not ultra confident in its long term durability. The seams between the top cap and body aren't consistent/even, and have largish gaps in the sections away from the screws. You can see it even on the exploded view of the example kit parts on Kohler's site, but mine are a bit more noticeable. There may even be a little seepage. I'll put a note to check on it before the year warranty runs out.

    One last question -- I replaced the supply line as well, matching the length of the new one with the existing 9" line.

    However, I've found that the new one, which has a braided outer jacket, isn't quite as flexible as the old non-jacketed line.

    The result is that is doesn't handle tight radiuses as well, resulting in a bit of a kink in the middle.

    I have some doubts about this, so I do plan to replace it with a longer line. I think what would happen with the next size up, 12" would alleviate the kink, but result in the radius touching the floor, which may be a bit untidy.

    So my thought is to get an even longer line, and then coil the excess, and zip tie the loops together, if need be.

    Any suggestions?
     
  5. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2013
    Location:
    IL
    Have you considered 3/8 OD chrome plated brass, bent to shape? That would look best.

    Besides chromed brass, they also have plastic risers that you cut to length.

    Flex lines usually route better if the compression valve output does not point directly to the input to the toilet. No s-curve needed then.
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2020
  6. Bimwad

    Bimwad New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2006
    If one were to compare the angle stop to the face of a clock, the output is aiming at 7 o'clock.

    With the fill valve situated above and to the left, the line would basically have to mimic something akin to the U-shaped portion of a tuning fork, with the tines spread out a bit.

    I'm not sure how malleable such hard lines can be, but it would still have to do close to a 180.

    The toilet happens to fill fine, and the kink doesn't restrict flow enough to prolong the fill time. I'm just wary of what kind of stress it puts on the line for the longer term.
     
  7. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2013
    Location:
    IL
    If you have things apart, you might consider replacing the stop valve. What kind is it? I replaced an old NPT-input valve, that screwed onto a galvanized nipple to something unseen (probable elbow) in the wall. I rotated the CCW valve, not knowing what would let go. The nipple unscrewed from inside of the wall. I put in a new brass nipple with the new valve.

    I later again replaced that only because I was replacing some galvanized with pex.

    A compression valve could be replaced, or maybe just reoriented. There is a tool called a sleeve puller, although the old nut and ferrule might be used with a new valve. I am unsure of how compatible those generally are. For a flex line, I think I would like the output oriented about horizontally toward the toilet base if there was space. That way the connector line would have a gentle curve rather than the S-curve that would be needed if pointing right at the toilet connection.
     
  8. Bimwad

    Bimwad New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2006
    The valve is just the typical angle stop, with a rotating oval handle.

    To be honest, I only know enough plumbing to fix simpler issues and get things functional again. I do work on cars, so I'm mechanically adept enough to diagnose conditions and replace parts, but am not familiar with the terminology, types of fittings, or the nuances involved in how plumbing works.

    The bathroom in question really needs to be torn up, and renovated, so as long as things work, I'm happy to keep the status quo and not undertake further projects that have the risk of cascading into a situation that would need professional help. Getting a longer line might not be tidy, but will be easy, and enough to eliminate the sharp bend.

    I do appreciate the advice/encouragement, though.
     
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