Knowing the "Codes" and how to use them

Discussion in 'Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice' started by Sylvan, Oct 21, 2020.

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How many plumbers thought about being experts witnesses ?

  1. Did not know about it

    1 vote(s)
    100.0%
  2. Had no idea it pays so much

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. Sylvan

    Sylvan Still learning

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2004
    Occupation:
    plumbing - fire suppression - boiler inspector
    Location:
    New York
    There is a golden opportunity for for plumbers who are licensed and know the codes and do not mind looking through the books and examining all the fine print

    I just was informed 10/21/2020 that we won a judgement against a luxury building in Manhattan that had a flood over a doctors office doing hundreds of thousands of dollars in damages plus loss of services

    It took me just over 1 hour to prove negligence against the building management

    The case was as follows .

    Someone bought an apartment 3 years ago in this building and before they even moved in they went to Florida for a vacation and there was a flood from the vacant apartment from a toilet connection after a home inspector said " there were no foreseeable problems"

    I was hired to find "something" to prove negligence using the shot gun effect (sue everyone) and the weakest link will fail

    I noticed there was a 200 A installed code violation number 1

    A plastic quick connection was installed from the angle stop to the 200 A

    Violation 2 as "plastic cannot be used on the potable water supply"

    Incompetence on the part of the installer as they installed the 200 A contrary to NYC plumbing code and they did not adjust the volume to be low enough that it would not over flow the tank but would safely flow down the over flow tube .

    Once I documented the code sections etc the firm I was working for was thrilled as there could be no rebuttal

    SEE Exhibit 1 .

    Just imagine the look on the defendants face when they were told they are liable for "criminal neglect" and

    Now I may get to work for their insurance company proving that the insurance company should not be held liable for a mongrels' installation
     

    Attached Files:

    Jeff H Young likes this.
  2. hj

    hj Master Plumber

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2004
    Occupation:
    Plumber
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    What code do you use that says "Plastic cannot be used on potable water supply", because it has been done "millions of times" in this area? I did not know you could adjust the "volume" of a 200A fill valve, other than by closing the supply stop, which ANYONE could then "reopen".
     
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  4. Tuttles Revenge

    Tuttles Revenge In the Trades

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2014
    I got removed from a jury pool most likely because of my plumbing background.. the case involved a leak from a water heater in a condo. That or I was seated next to an ex girlfriend.
     
    Sylvan likes this.
  5. Jeff H Young

    Jeff H Young In the Trades

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2020
    Location:
    92346
    Thats good Sylvan! very interesting too . how do you get started in that?
     
  6. Sylvan

    Sylvan Still learning

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2004
    Occupation:
    plumbing - fire suppression - boiler inspector
    Location:
    New York
    |

    HJ in certain parts of the country it is common practice to install a GLOBE Valve under each fixture to "Throttle" how much volume is flowing

    There are gate valves used for positive shut off and are used either fully open of fully closed A needle valve also used to fine adjustments such as on a cutting or welding torch

    The idea of doing "good plumbing practices " is to install a ball cock hold the cylinder or float rod DOWN as the tank fills

    As the water reaches the OVER FLOW TUBE it should flow down the tube rather then over flowing over the tank (Flood level rim)

    The case I just won I proved

    1- No one made a proper adjustment of the volume entering the tank

    2- a 200 A was NEVER approved for use in NYC (no vacuum breaker)

    3- Non code product used on a potable water supply


    Reference Standard 16 222 †(b) Plastic piping and fittings.-Plastic piping and fittings may be used only in residential buildings of three stories or less in height, except that corrugated polyethylene piping with a diameter of twelve inches or more and plastic fittings may be used in connection with any type of building for underground yard drainage and storm water piping when used outside of the foundation walls of the building and not connecting to any piping system from the interior of the building and shall be approved. Plastic drain, waste and vent pipe and fittings used inside of residential buildings of three stories or less in height shall be required to conform with ASTM Standard D2661-97 Specification for Acrylonitrile-Butadiene-Styrene (ABS) Schedule 40 Plastic Drain, Waste, and Vent Pipe and Fittings or ASTM Standard D2665-98 Specification for Poly Vinyl Chloride (PVC) Plastic Drain, Waste, and Vent Pipe and Fittings, as well as the International Association of Plumbing and Mechanical Officials Installation Standards for ABS Building Drain, Waste and Vent Pipe and Fittings (IAPMO IS 5-92) and PVC Building Drain, Waste and Vent Pipe and Fittings (IAPMO IS 9-95) and Non-Metallic Building Sewers (IAPMO IS 1-91). †Local Law 2-2001; Local Law 58-1973; Local Law 75-1971


    P102.4 Piping System Materials.- (a) Water supply systems.- *(1) WATER SERVICE PIPE.-Water service piping within the property line shall be of red brass or copper pipe; type K copper tube; type "TP" threadless copper; cast iron or ductile iron water pipe; or plastic pipe in accordance with section P102.2(b). Water service piping outside of the property line shall comply with requirements of the department of environmental protection. When used underground in corrosive soil or fill, all ferrous pipe and fittings shall be coal tar, enamel coated. Threaded joints shall be coated and wrapped after installation regardless of the nature of the soil. (2) WATER DISTRIBUTION SYSTEM PIPE.-Water distribution system piping shall be of red brass pipe, type "TP" threadless copper pipe, hard temper type "K" copper tube, hard temper type "L" copper tube, galvanized wrought iron pipe, galvanized steel pipe, or ductile cast iron properly anchored. Cast iron and ductile-iron pipe may be cement lined in accordance with ANSI A21.4-1971. Type "L" copper tube shall not be installed in soil or concrete floor fill.


    If you notice PLASTIC is NOT even mentioned in the water supply
     
  7. Sylvan

    Sylvan Still learning

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2004
    Occupation:
    plumbing - fire suppression - boiler inspector
    Location:
    New York
    Jeff it started my career by accident

    I owed a lawyer some money and he had a case and said we could barter my testimony and call it even

    After I testified the lawyer on the other side asked for my business card and his firm hired me a few months later .

    Then a case was written up in the law journal and the expert institute contacted me to write articles as well as some other sites and it just took off

    The main thing study the local codes because on cross examination the opposing lawyer will ask the same question rewording it several times trying to trip up your testimony


    Most cases are settled just before I get to testify

    https://pospislaw.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/Clinindin-v.-NYCHA.pdf


    https://www.hgexperts.com/expert-witness-articles/out-of-control-lawsuits-6984
     
  8. Tuttles Revenge

    Tuttles Revenge In the Trades

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2014
    except in those 2 instinces yes.
     
  9. Sylvan

    Sylvan Still learning

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2004
    Occupation:
    plumbing - fire suppression - boiler inspector
    Location:
    New York


    Considering how dangerous PVC is in a fire the BEST polititions money can buy are in NY they increased the height of plastic to 5 stories residential only in spite of the fire departments objections as money comes before lives
     
  10. Sylvan

    Sylvan Still learning

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2004
    Occupation:
    plumbing - fire suppression - boiler inspector
    Location:
    New York
     
  11. Sylvan

    Sylvan Still learning

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2004
    Occupation:
    plumbing - fire suppression - boiler inspector
    Location:
    New York
    DOCUMENTATION and code references is how the rigged system works

    SUPREME COURT OF THE STATE OF NEW YORK
    COUNTY OF BRONX
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------x
    C DAVIS, Index #306835/2013
    Plaintiff,

    -against- AFFIDAVIT
    PLUMBING & HEATING CO., INC.,
    DEVELOPMENT PARTNERS, LLC and
    RELATED MANAGEMENT COMPANY, L.P.,
    Defendants.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------x
    STATE OF NEW YORK )
    ) SS:
    COUNTY OF BRONX )
    SYLVAN TIEGER, being duly sworn, deposes and states under penalties of perjury:
    1) I am a licensed master plumber and contractor and I submit this Affidavit in opposition to the motions for summary judgment served by the defendants in this case. I was retained by Plaintiff in this matter to inspect the subject sink and the piping underneath and to provide an expert opinion on the subject sink, its construction/maintenance, and the responsibilities of the parties.
    2) In preparation of the Affidavit, I reviewed the photographs of the sink and performed an inspection of the sink on October 28, 2014. I also reviewed Plaintiff’s Bill of Particulars, the deposition testimony of Plaintiff and Howard Chumsky, and the maintenance/repair records exchanged by Plumbing & Heating Co. Inc. (”).
    3) Based upon my inspection and review of the documents stated above, Defendants in this matter violated The New York City Plumbing Code Sections 102.3, 104.2 and 701.10. Specifically, these sections of the Code state, as follows:
    102.3 Maintenance: All plumbing systems, materials and appurtenances, both existing
    and new, and all parts thereof, shall be maintained in proper operating condition in
    accordance with the original design in a safe and sanitary condition. All devices or
    safeguards required by this code shall be maintained in compliance with this code.
    The owner or the owner’s designated agent shall be responsible for the maintenance of
    plumbing systems.
    104.2 (g) Sealing: Where fixtures come in contact with wall or floors, the space between
    the fixture and the wall shall be sealed against water seepage.
    701.10 Plastic pipe. Plastic pipings and fittings shall not be used. Exception: Plastic
    Piping and fittings may be used in residential buildings five stories or less in height.
    4) At my inspection, I observed the following violations: 1) the sink affixed to the table was incorrectly sealed with GE silicone instead of plumber’s putty in violation of Code 104.2 (g); 2) the use of the plastic P-Trap is a blatant violation of Code 701.10.
    5) The photograph marked as “Exhibit 3” at the deposition of H. Chumsky on September 11, 2015 shows the sealant being pulled out from under the sink. This is not water tight in violation of Code 104.2 and the sink was not properly sealed to prevent water seepage and leakage to the underside of the sink.
    6) The photograph marked as “Exhibit 5” at the deposition of H. Chumsky pipe under the sink. The metal pipe depicted in the photograph is known as a “Slip-El” pipe. My inspection and the subject photograph reveals evidence of rusting and water leakage/damage on the metal Slip-El pipe where it meets the plastic slip-nut used to attach the plastic and the metal together. See Exhibit 5.
    7) Ms. Henley-Davis testified that the leak was recurring over the course of a month preceding her accident and she observed the water coming from the piping and plastic beneath the sink. Based on my inspection and review of the materials provided to me, I conclude to a reasonable degree of plumbing certainty that the leak as described by Ms. Davis was caused as a result of Defendants failure to use proper sealant around the sink as shown in “Exhibit 3.” This caused water to seep/leak below the sink and strike the pipes, which caused the extensive rusting/water damage observed on the metal pipe. Defendants’ failure to use the proper sealant is a violation of Code 104.2 and a cause of this accident.
    8) I further conclude to a reasonable degree of plumbing certainty that Defendant failed to properly repair this leak when they performed repairs on October 15, 2012. The work order is silent as to the replacement/repair of the sealant on the sink. The fact that the sink continued to leak as per Ms. H-Davis’s testimony confirms that they either misdiagnosed the problem or they failed to address the leak coming from the sink above from the failure to properly seal it as discussed above.
    9) Finally, Mr. Chumsky confirmed at his deposition that use of the plastic P-Trap was a violation of Code. As the plumbers retained to service the Home Depot, they should have replaced this plastic piece at the time they performed repairs on October 15, 2015. To the extent the leak emanated directly from either the plastic P-Trap or the metal Slip-El pipe, this would have simply been the result of a failure to properly secure the two pipes together. If the leak was present in the month preceding the subject accident and coming directly from the plastic or the metal pipe, then Defendant no doubt should have observed this during their inspection on October 15. 2015 and properly tightened the two (2) pipes together.
    ___________________________________ Sylvan Tieger
    Sworn to before me on this
    Day of April, 2018
    ________________
    Notary Public
     
  12. Sylvan

    Sylvan Still learning

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2004
    Occupation:
    plumbing - fire suppression - boiler inspector
    Location:
    New York
    To make the case several codes should be utilized such as EPA, DEP, PLBG, BLDG and then cherry pick which parts will win the case

    The other reason plumbers should consider being an "Expert" as we get older physically it becomes harder and a expert witness can be older then water BUT has to keep abreast t of codes and changes . The case below I never went to the site I was sent several e mails looked at the pictures asked for $5,000 as I knew I had to spend hours looking at the old codes ,real-estate ownerships responsibility

    I never left my office and spend almost 3 hours looking up codes and e mailing my deposition then had it typed by the law firm with some minor corrections and had it notarized . I actually went after NYC on many cases and usually they are settled out of court

    SUPREME COURT OF THE STATE OF NEW YORK COUNTY OF KINGS ------------------------------------------------------------------------------X R. PARKE, Plaintiff, -against THE CITY OF NEW YORK, G. PROPERTIES LLC and WALGREEN CO. d/b/a DUANE READE, Defendants. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------X AFFIDAVIT Index No.: 12587/12 STATE OF NEW YORK } } ss. COUNTY OF BRONX } I, Sylvan Tieger, LMP, affirm, with a reasonable degree of plumbing certainty, under the penalties of perjury, and the applicable provisions of the Laws and Rules of New York State, that the statements contained herein are true and accurate: 1. I am a licensed master plumber and fire suppression piping contractor, who operates a business for those services, S. Tieger Plumbing Company, Inc., located at West Street, Bronx, NY , that conducts plumbing and fire suppression piping. See, st Curriculum Vitae, attached hereto. 2. I was initially contacted by Plaintiff, RMILLER s, counsel, Salvatore J. Sciangula, Esq. in March 2017 for an opinion regarding the “ownership and maintenance responsibility” of a “sidewalk water valve, water cap and/or water stem in front of the premises known as 2931 Avenue U, in the County of Kings, City and State of New York.” 3. Shortly thereafter, I was supplied with photographs (see, attached) and other additional information regarding Plaintiff’s case, which assisted me with my investigation of the premises and matter. Plaintiff alleges she “slipped, tripped and fell over public sidewalk water valve, water cap and/or water stem located in front of the premises known as 2931 Avenue U, in the County of Kings, City and State of New York.” What Plaintiff refers to as a “sidewalk water valve, water cap and/or water stem” is known as a curb valve. I was able to formulate an opinion of the ownership and maintenance requirement of the curb valve in question, without the necessity of a site visit. 4. Curb valves exist to provide a nearby structure with water from a City main. The curb valves provide a quick, main shut off point for water entering the building without the necessity of entering the building being serviced. These curb valves are governed by the “New York City Department of Environmental Protection Rules of the City of New York Governing and Restricting the Use and Supply of Water,” R.C.N.Y. Title 15, Chapter 20. See, attached. Curb valves are associated with corporation stops (taps) and wet connections for the water supply to the building being serviced. 5. Pursuant to Section 20-08 (c) 1), “Installation and Maintenance. The property owner shall be responsible for installation and maintenance of corporation stops (taps), wet connection sleeves and valves, three-ways, service pipes and curb valves.” (Emphasis supplied). 6. Pursuant to Section 20-03 (k) 4), “The property owner shall protect the curb valve/box from any damage and shall promptly report in writing to the Department any circumstances that may adversely affect the operation of the curb valve.” (Emphasis supplied). 7. Pursuant to Section 20-03 (v), “The property owner is responsible for preventing physical deterioration of the service, curb valve, house control valve or distribution pipe which may damage a meter or prevent its maintenance or replacement. The owner shall be responsible for repairing or replacing equipment, service or distribution pipe to allow maintenance, proper operation or replacement of the meter. The property owner, and not the Department, is responsible for the maintenance of the service and distribution pipe and its associated fittings and equipment. The meter setting is the responsibility of the Department.” (Emphasis supplied). 8. The plugging and destruction of corporation stops (taps), wet connections and curb valves are also governed by the same Rules, as I have been made aware that the curb valve in question has been “cemented over.” 9. Therefore, it is my professional opinion that the inspection, maintenance, protection and prevention of deterioration of the curb valve in question, whether operational or not at the time of Plaintiff’s July 11, 2011 accident, was the sole responsibility of the building owner of 2931 Avenue U, in the County of Kings, City and State of New York, the only physical structure capable of being serviced by the curb valve connection located thereat. 10. I am not now, nor have I ever been, concerned in the settlement of this action, directly or indirectly, at the instance of Defendant, Defendant’s insurer, Defendant’s attorneys or representatives of any other party, with interests adverse to that of the Plaintiff, RUTH MILLER PARKE. I have not received, nor will I receive, any relief, or payment, directly, or indirectly, from Defendant, its attorneys or representatives, or by anyone who has an adverse interest to the infant Plaintiff herein. Dated: , NY , 2017 Sylvan Tieger, LMP Master Plumber License #: 0723 Fire Suppression Piping License #: 0130-B
     
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