Kitchen drain - 25 foot auger not clearing

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BillHoo

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I have a clog in my kitchen sink that is not at the disposal or P-Trap.

I have removed the P-Trap to access the stub out at the wall, and used my 25 foot drum auger with an electric drill connected to it.

Last time I did this was 3 years ago and I remember there were maybe five turns in the wall the snake had to go thru before clearing. Previous homeowner is known to have just poured cooking grease down the drain regularly. When I augered a few years ago, I pulled out nickel and quarter sized chunks of hard, calcified fat... almost like concrete. That was within first 10-15 feet. Snaking all the way to 25 feet cleared the clog back then.

I suspect further down (beyond 25 feet) there is more calcified fat, that may have collapsed in the pipe to created a clog. Or worst case, an animal crawled down there and got stuck.

I went thru 25 feet again and use a back and forth sawing motion to try and dislodge any clog. After putting it back together, it still clogs.

Went to Home Depot looking to by a 50 foot auger. Talked to the plumbing guy there and he thinks that the clog is at the T-connection where the horizontal drain line connects to the stack. Says the snake is being diverted UP the stack since the last few feet of the cable seem to be clear when I auger.

I tried snaking from the roof vent and got past one obstruction about 15 feet down, then nothing. Pulled up the cable and it is mostly dry. The tip is wet going the first 3 feet.

Found a 50 foot "flat sewer rod", basically a stiff, flat, steel ribbon cable in my garage that previous homeowner had left. At the end, is a small lime-shaped aluminum clog cutting head. I pushing that thru the roof vent and it stops at around 15 or 18 feet. I think that is maybe the T- Connection (not really a T maybe more like a angled Y or something. It goes no further and I don't want to force it.

I don't think the 25 foot auger is reaching the clog from the roof. I'm sure it is passing the T- connection and the kitchen level and making it's way to the basement, but not the lateral line.

Shouldn't the T-connector curve downward from the sink line, pretty much ensuring the cable goes down?

I'm thinking of going back to my first plan and renting a 50 foot motorized auger. I'll try it first from the kitchen stub out. Then if it still does not work, I'll lug it to the roof and try from the roof vent.

Anyone have any thoughts?
 

WorthFlorida

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Is there a clean out somewhere in the basement or a union you can open up and work backwards, or after the kitchen sink is there another fixture that you can snake from?
 

BillHoo

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I have not found a cleanout near the kitchen. Nothing outside the house.

No other fixture on the kitchen side of the house.

Kitchen is at SE corner of the house. UP and Downstairs Bathroorms and basement laundry are at the NE of the house
The kitchen drain pipe looks like it goes toward the back of the house a few feet and connects to the stack in the wall.

At the basement, directly under the kitchen I can see the stack at the corner of the house angles upward toward the wall near the ceiling and straight down to the concrete. No cleanout visible.

My basement is packed with stuff. At the cent front of the house is a stairwell with a door under it. I have to move all the stuff blocking that area. If there is a cleanout for the lateral line from the kitchen, it might be there.

Directly under the upstairs bathroom is a large cast iron pipe with a cast iron cleanout plug. the big (6 inch??) pipe goes straight down into the concrete. Two feet above it, the pipes branch like a candleabrah or trident going three ways in a space above the ceiling. I do not think the kitchen lateral line goes to this junction via the ceiling. More likely it goes from the back corner under the concrete, either to the space under the stairs, or elsewhere.

Heading out of town this weekend. Will have to move stuff in basement when I get back to check under stairs.

What do you think are my chances that I can just snake from the kitchen stub out with a longer snake (50 foot)? Or at least the roof vent.

Distance from roof vent to basement is about 20 feet I think. From the vent to the front of the house is about 20-25 feet.

I'm wondering if I rent a 50 foot 1/2 inch auger... could it make the sharp turns from the kitchen stub out? Or should I get a 50 foot 5/16 auger?

Attached are diagrams of what I can see or know so far.
 

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Reach4

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Before you have used that drain since yesterday, try pouring water into the drain quickly. How much water do you add before you see the backup? You could use a 5 gallon bucket that is 80% full. Once you see a backup, stop pouring. Measure the depth of the remaining water, and deduct that from your initial 4 gallons. Why 80% full? You can't pour into a kitchen sink from a full bucket without a lot of spilling.

This test expects that you have put the drain stuff back together.

The point is that we can estimate how far down the clog is by considering the pipe volume, and maybe that of the garbage disposal. The though is that your snake poked thru the clog, but that hole in the clog was small with respect to the pipe diameter. Want to try your own math? See https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/pipe-water-content-volume-weight-d_1734.html
I am going to guess on the order of 1 gallon plus the volume of the disposal cavity. I guess you could remove the rubber thing from the disposal input and not when the water starts rising in the disposal, rather than when the disposal fills.

Also, estimate how quickly the backed-up water recedes (in gpm or whatever).

Right under that kitchen sink, does the drain pipe go down the basement wall into the basement floor?
 
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BillHoo

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So, I worked on the drain Wednesday and Thursday.

I put it back together Wednesday and filled the sink as far as it would go in hopes the weight of the water, might push the clog thru.

It took maybe 5 to 10 seconds for water start backing up into the drain.

Wife and I took an out of state trip Friday night. Water level had not gone down.

Sunday, we came back and water was still in the sink. Maybe down 1/4 to 1/2 inch since filling the sink on Wednesday (maybe down due to evaporation).

Went to a DIFFERENT Home Depot to rent a 1/2 inch 50 foot snake and look at feasibility of lugging onto the roof.

talked to a different guy who advised against taking it to the roof - said it was doable, but his friends had a bad experience going that route. I also realized I'm not as young as I used to be and hauling that thaing up the ladder would not be safe.

We agreed that based on previous attempts from the sink and roof, that:
- the clog appears to be past the bend at the bottom of the basement, NOT at the T- connection.
- There appears to be water standing from the clog up to the T. (Snaking from the roof to the basement, the snake is wet maybe 4 feet from the tip. Dry from there to the auger.)
- Due to the WINDOW right above the sink, the stack does not go straight down to the stubout/drain. It is actually about 4 to 5 feet to the LEFT of the sink.
- If there is a cleanout at the T. It is likely in the wall under the sink cabinet to the left at the vertical stack
- Due to the number of sharp bends in the pipe, that I count, a 1/2 inch snake will not likely make it past going thru the 1 1/2 inch pipe at the stubout.
- I moved all my stuff from the secret door under the stairs and found just and empty space where I can see the plumbing for the downstairs bathroom sink. NO CLEANOUT there.
- The cleanout plug on the far side of the house in the bsasement near all the bathrooms and laundry room is likely the Master Cleanout that leads directly to the sewer.

My next step is to go to a local tool rental center that has a 5/16 and 50 foot snake (Home Depot only had the 1/2 inch augers in that length). Hopefully is has the option of a number of cutting heads.
My plan is to first:
- Snake thru the kitchen stubout
- Maybe snake from the roof vents if the 5/16th snake is light enough to carry

Another idea.
- I took a rubber squishy stress ball and poke a hole thru the center. Ran a length of nylon 550 cord through it and tied that to a 1 gallon jug.
- Intend to go to the roof and plug the vent stack with the ball. The jug should prevent it from getting suck in there.
- Hook a shop vac to the kitchen stubout and see if it sucks out the clog.

If all that fails. I still have a plumber coming Tusday afternoon.
 

Reach4

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Gallons would imply that the clog was far along. Often a clog happens where the drain pipe switches from vertical to horizontal. I had a clog at such a spot. I sliced a section out of the drain pipe in the basement. I inserted a Brasscraft drain bladder, shoved it down so it would have been below the basement floor where the turn was made. The drain bladder is hooked to a garden hose.

After clearing the blockage, I put the cut-away section of pipe back with two flex couplers.

My drain pipe was against the basement wall, right under the kitchen sink and above my laundry tub.
 

BillHoo

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Thanks!

I'm trying to steer away from any pipe cutting if I can.

Looked at the pipe in the basement last night. Goes from the kitchen down thru the basement into the concrete.

I had originally thought it was cast iron, but I think it might 3 inch steel pipe? It's black. I think I can cut it, but thinking I'd leave that smelly job to the plumber.

Will have to see how far I get with the 5/16 snake this evening after work.
 

BillHoo

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I just took a good look at the photo I took of the crawl space under the stairs. I can see our downstairs bathroom from the other side of the wall.

Gives me a better idea of what is going behind the kitchen all.

Didn't find a cleanout, but have a better idea of the plumbing behind the wall at the kitchen.

Attached is the photo of the crawlspace. I just took a good look to see what's going on and how the set it up.

Our downstairs bathroom is on the other side of the crawl space and I see that the sink is goes from the P-Trap to a 1 1/2 inch J-connector to the stubout. From there it goes to a 3 inch pipe to the vertical stack and into the concrete slab.

I could probably just remove the J-connector (it's further into the wall in the kitchen) and expose the 3 inch stub out and use a 1/2 inch or even 3/4 inch snake with cutting heads to clean out the lateral line to the main line.
 

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BillHoo

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Problem solved.

Went to the local rental center. guy waws skeptical that the pipe behind the wall could accommodate a 1/2 inch auger.

Convinced me to rent the 5/16 x 50 foot model with springy bulb head (no swappable cutting heads). It was called a Power Rooter and was a little stand with a drill attached. Pneumatic Foot bulb switch activated a solenoid that you could see pushing a plunger that pressed the trigger switch on the drill handle. Paid for all day rental of $36

Started at 5PM and finished up at 6:30 PM.

I didn't bother trying to remove the elbow or J-connector from the stub out. The 5/16 snake worked it's way in with a few turns.

Used a 3 steps forward one step back method. I'd feed it in 3 feet. Rev up the drill for about 5 seconds, then pull back a foot and rev up for 5 seconds, then repeat.

After 25 feet, I went outside to check the vent stack to ensure the snake didn't get diverted at the T. Didn't see it. GOOD

Went back in and continued. At 34 to 38 feet, I felt about two hard to push areas and dwelled a few extra seconds at those spots to do it's thing.

At about 43 feet there was a lot of tension on the cable and if I stopped, the drum would roll back.

At 45 feet the coiled cable in the drum cage started to kink and exploded out of the cage and scared the heck out of me as it hit my arm and then smacked the floor for a few revolutions.

I reversed the drum a few turns to remove tension and recoiled the remaining cable neatly in the cage and tried again.

It went forward a few and exploded again. Did it 4 more times and gave up at around 44 feet. Seems to be stuck on something.

Pulled the cable and carefully rolled it back into the cage. When the head came out it had strands of human hair wound in the coils!

My guess it's made it's way to junction where all the lateral line go to the main. The hair must have been from the shower. Maybe the head got stuck at the thick metal cage at the shower drain?

I put everything back together and ran hot tap water from the sink for 20 minutes with no backups. I also ran cold tap water from the upstairs bathroom help flush any loosened debris coming out of the kitchen lateral line toward main line.

Thanks to all for the input and advice!
 
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snwtpr

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Problem solved.

Thanks for your write up on this! I also had an issue with the clogged kitchen sink and 25 feet 1/4" snake didn't help at all - water was standing still in the sink just like in your case. I tried pouring a gallon of the pipe cleaner (lye) after emptying the pipes and let it sit for 5 hours without any results.

Was about to give up and scheduled a maintenance appointment with my rental company, but after reading your posts got myself a 50ft 3/8" snake and it got the job done! I was lucky to find a cleanout port outside the house right below the kitchen sink area.

I didn't use any power tools and there were a couple of hard to pass spots after about 30 feet, eventually I put the entire length of the auger through and pulled it out (with some effort), it was completely clean, so no idea what it was.

Thanks again for sharing everyone!
 
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