Katalox Light short lived

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Tim Plaster

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Based on excellent help and recommendations from this forum, I recently installed a Fleck 2510 AIO with Katalox light in a 10" tank. It started out great. The water was flowing clear and the brown stains weren't coming back. Fast forward 6 months and the iron water is back.
My iron levels are 5.008 ppm. This is a 2nd home and sometimes can go 2 weeks with no one staying there.
I had the regen cycle set for 3 days and just changed it to 2
The BW rate I bumped from 10 to 11
Rapid Rinse is set for 10 mins.
I do have garnet in my tank below the KL. Would that require me to backwash more to get the KL to "fluff up"?
I took the valve off the unit, siphoned a little water out of it and added a very heavy dose of Iron Out dissolved in water. Let it sit for a couple hours, reattached the valve and manually started a regen. cycle. It didn't seem to make a difference. In hindsight, I should have drained all of the water and then filled it with the iron out solution. Would bleach work better to "clean" or regenerate the KL?
Any other ideas on how to clean the KL?
Even if this works, I obviously don't want to have to go through this process every 6 months. Any settings I can change or do I need to start looking at an injector system?
 

Bannerman

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The BW rate I bumped from 10 to 11
Does this mean you increased the BW time setting from 10 minutes to 11 minutes?

The BW rate and the amount of media bed expansion are governed by the incoming water temperature and the DLFC (drain line flow control) restrictor that is installed. The DLFC flow rate is usually specified on a label located nearby to the drain connection. What is that flow rate?

The lower chart here: https://view.publitas.com/impact-water-products/2018-catalog-final/page/154-155
indicates the recommended BW flow rate for KL media is 10-15 GPM per ft2 of tank cross-section. The upper chart converts those flow rates when using a 10" diameter tank to 5.4 to 8.1 GPM when backwashing with 60-degree water. As you had previously said the incoming water temperature is only 50 degrees, then the GPM is to be 10% lower so the BLFC restrictor flow rate should then be 7.29 GPM for the higher 15 GPM/ft2 flow rate.

As a reminder from your original thread, Ditttohead had said: 'So no real limitation so long as you don't try to use Filox. Anytime you use AIO I would recommend taking the valve off after about 6 months and check the condition inside the tank. It may look nasty, this is normal and it usually rinsed off fairly easily.'
 

Tim Plaster

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Yes, I just increased the minutes. I suppose I'll need to go check what the DLFC is when I go back there.
When I removed the valve, I did inspect everything and while it had some brown staining, it wasn't overly gross. So, I didn't mess with it. I even opened the injector valve and the little screen "tube" was slightly brown, but not clogged in any way.
Here's one: I seem to find conflicting info in my research Should the 2510 be set to "filter" or df1b for an AIO?
 

Bannerman

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Should the 2510 be set to "filter" or df1b for an AIO?
If there is no specific setting for AIO, then the correct setting will be dF1b.

If your setting has been as 'filter', then it will not have been performing as an AIO system. When programmed as dF1b, instead of drawing brine from a softener's brine tank, air will be drawn to create an air bubble within the media tank of an AIO system.

See the Valve Type, Control Type and Brine Fill settings within the Master Programming Settings chart in section 4e here: https://www.afwfilters.com/instructions/air-injection/fleck-2510-and-2510sxt
 
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Tim Plaster

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Well, that makes me feel real smart. Pretty sure it's been on "filter". This might explain everything...
So, do you think there's a way to rejuvenate the Katalox that's in there? Bleach or Iron Out bath?
 

Bannerman

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Often, chlorine or hydrogen peroxide is utilized to supplement the oxidation performance of KL, but your AIO system is intended to use oxygen from within air as an oxidant. Since you haven't yet determined how well it will work using only air, perhaps try that first by performing a full regeneration.

If you wish to increase the BW time temporarily to flush out additional debris, pull-out the electrical plug while BW is occurring, as that will prevent the controller from advancing until after power is again restored.

Also, determine the drain flow rate. If the DLFC rate is not specified on the valve, time how long to fill a 3 or 5-gallon bucket using the flow from the drain line while BW is occurring so as to calculate the BW GPM.

When the control valve was removed, did you notice a Dispersal Basket located on the riser tube directly below the tank opening? A Dispersal Basket is specified in step 3b and shown as Img #6 within the linked service manual in post #4.
 

Tim Plaster

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I've definitely got a dispersal basket.
I'm going back and forth on whether I originally set it to "filter" or df1b. I don't ever remember setting the brine draw (or air draw) though, so it makes me feel like it was on filter. Any idea on what I should set the brine draw to? Looks like Brine FILL should be set to 0.
So does the Katalox itself remove iron without the added oxygen? Is that why it worked for a brief time?
Thanks a lot for all your time and knowledge on this.
 

Bannerman

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KL will provide some level of oxidation utilizing the dissolved oxygen contained within the water. When the iron level is substantial such as yours, an additional oxidant will enhance iron conversion from ferrous to ferric. Once the iron is oxidized into a solid (ferric), the KL media will filter out those solids which will then be flushed to drain during each backwash cycle.

The Brine Draw setting will be conditional on which injector is installed. A flow of rinse water through the injector will create suction on the brine fitting which will draw in air. Each injector is assigned a number and is color coded as each color/number represents a specific flow rate for both slow rinse and brine draw. The injector number installed is often specified on the same label as the DLFC rate.

The size of the air bubble will be limited by the remaining tank space not occupied by the media so you will likely want BD to be sufficient to fill the tank with air to the point that air begins to be expelled with the slow rinse flow from the drain line.
 

Reach4

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So, do you think there's a way to rejuvenate the Katalox that's in there? Bleach or Iron Out bath?
I am not sure. I guess if there was much visible iron, I would go IO, and then later bleach. Otherwise just bleach. My iron filter, with different media, uses 1 gallon of bleach every 11 regenerations. I am using 8% bleach.

For this one-time recovery treatment, I would be thinking between a pint and a quart diluted into water. I am not a pro.

How will you introduce the bleach? It would be nice if you could use the injection system somehow, but I don't know how you would do that.

On your settings, didn't the dealer who sold you the system give you programming info or pre-program the 2510?
 

ditttohead

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I would recommend adding bleach to the KL. You can add it to the top of the tank, then put the system into air draw, do not go into BW since this will simply expel the bleach out the drain rather than pushing it through the media.

Typical is 45 minutes for air draw, but as stated above, this really depends on which injector you have. Fortunately it is not overy critical like it would be on a softener.
 

Tim Plaster

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I can get the whole valve off without too much trouble. So I think I'll do that, siphon out all the water in the tank and then put the bleach solution in. That way I can make sure it gets down within the KL.
Yes, I did get programming instructions. However, I remember the "filter vs df1b" being a little vague. And of course that 1 page with all of the settings on it is the one that has disappeared... I'm going to actually write them on the tank in Sharpie this time.
Thanks all. I'll let you know how it goes.
 

Reach4

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I can get the whole valve off without too much trouble. So I think I'll do that, siphon out all the water in the tank and then put the bleach solution in. That way I can make sure it gets down within the KL.
I think the suggestion was not to siphon the whole tank, but clear out room for the bleach if necessary-- maybe diluted with couple of gallons of water or so. Then with the air draw, the bolus of bleach would slowly work its way down.

If you have a big air bubble up top, you might not even have to siphon.

But I could be mistaken.
 

ditttohead

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AIO systems show a huge air bubble on top, this is usually not the case. It is usually just a few inches of air. The drawings you see are very deceptive. At 60 PSI, air compresses to only 1/4 of its original size, take into consideration the displacement of air by the tank being 2/3 full of media... my math knowledge in the field of compressed gasses is not the best, but the principals are fairly simple. Assuming 60% displacement of volume by the media, X.66 freeboard), you can see how quickly the actual air pocket is reduced to just a few inches.
 
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