Is plumber at fault?

[Cmitch]

we had a clog in kitchen sink drain line, the plumber came out and went to get his power machine, I don't know if it was a power auger or something else. It cleared the kitchen drain. Within an hour we were in the garage and found water leaking from duct work. Contacted plumber he said it wasn't from the clog, was freshwater. The ceiling had Sheetrock and the plumber started tearing down the wet stuff to try to find the leak. We had plans to go so we had to turn the water off and leave it til next morning. Plumber returned next morning and did more demolition looking for leak, he determined it was not leaking from any of the fresh water lines. By this time the leaking had stopped and didn't return even with the water turned back on, the plumber contacted a rspestoration company and they came to start the dry out process for repair. I notified my insurance of the claim but it was a Saturday so they couldn't do anything until Monday. The water restoration guy discovered that there was debris in the hall bathtub. From this they discovered that the fittings for the bathtub drain had loosened. The consensus is that the pressure from clearing the clogged sink drain caused the water to back up the drain pipe into the bathtub and caused the fitting to fail and the leak to develop, The water restoration guy has talked to the plumber about this. The plumber has not been in contact with us about it. I had texted the plumber asking for my invoice since I had paid by check at time of service and he said he would email it. I still don't have the invoice.
My insurance will pay for the restoration after my $500 deductible. The repair to the tub we can handle ourselves, insurance won't cover.
My question is this. Does the plumber have any liability for causing the leak? If so should his insurance company be involved?
We are in process of moving to Fla and had to delay things for a week. We are putting the house on the market, we had not had any claims for insurance on it ever and now will have this as well as have to disclose to buyer.
I don't know if it's just our bad luck or a bad plumber?
Appreciate your advise, thanks!!

 

[Reach4]

The consensus is that the pressure from clearing the clogged sink drain caused the water to back up the drain pipe into the bathtub and caused the fitting to fail and the leak to develop,

I can't believe that story.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Cmitch]

I can't believe that story.

How would you explain debris in tub? The fitting is designed for water flowing down not up or that's what they are telling me. And why I am asking here.

 

[Reach4]

How would you explain debris in tub? The fitting is designed for water flowing down not up or that's what they are telling me. And why I am asking here.

Debris in a tub would be quite expected if you add water upstream of a clog. The tub may be your lowest drain.

There is nothing about a tub drain that is one-way other than it is higher than the sewer. When you fill up the drain lines, expect the water level to rise.

The consensus is that the pressure from clearing the clogged sink drain caused the water to back up the drain pipe into the bathtub and caused the fitting to fail and the leak to develop,

So the backing up to the tub is quite reasonable. The thing about causing a fitting to fail was the part that I found ridiculous. I am not a plumber.

 

[Terry]

So you managed to clog your kitchen sink, and then called a plumber. Your tub drain which is supposed to handle ten feet of head pressure leaked with almost no head pressure. Snaking and clearing the drain was done, and during that process a little bit of added water was enough to show up on the tub drain, which by the way isn't the plumbers problem. The plumber has to assume he's clearing a kitchen line, and any tub installed there should be able to handle any amount of water you throw at it. That's what plumbing is about. Pipes that flow water downhill without leaks.
In what possible way could you find a way to blame him?

When I'm installing a tub drain, I fill the tub to the overflow and make sure there are no leaks. Not in the drain, and not in the overflow. If snaking the kitchen sink caused your tub to leak, then you need to add that to your list of plumbing fixes that need doing.

 

[Cmitch]

I don't understand plumbing for sure but it seems odd that the bathtub drain fittings failed right after the kitchen drain clog was cleared. I don't know if they used a power auger or what. To me it's like when you would take your car to have the brakes replaced and right after that some related auto part failed. This tub is not used regularly so I assume that there must have been a problem with the drain fittings that didn't become apparent until water backed up into the tub and caused the leak.
The plumber posted about this new equipment he has for drain cleaning, can you tell me what it is?
I don't understand why he is not sending the invoice or communicating, I am just looking for information.
Appreciate your input Terry.

 

[WorthFlorida]

Bad luck and the water restoration guy does not know what he is talking about. This leak was not caused by this plumber but he did come out to be sure it was not his work and tried to find it for you. It took awhile for the leak to show itself because the ceiling cavity insulation was absorbing water before it could nn longer hold anymore.

Your back up at the kitchen sink was more than you thought. It's hard to concern from your description but it seems the kitchen sink and bathtub are on the same floor, higher than the garage ceiling. Your sink and bathroom do share the main waste line. The blockeage that the plumber cleared was probably past the sink and bathroom drains. The bottom of the kitchen sink is about 30 inches above the floor and the tub drain is usually at floor level. If you had standing water in the sink 30 inches above the floor, water will back up to the tub. I bet there was water in the tub when the plumber was there.

The drain connection at the tub had to be loose before the sink backed up. The drain threads into the waste line and between the tub and waste line is a rubber gasket that is compressed up to the tub. When you use the shower in the tub water flows down fairly fast. When you use the tub drain stopper the water is above the rubber gasket. But when water is standing in the tub with the drain open, the water has time to work around the gasket.

The second location could be the overflow rubber gasket. It's not uncommon that if you have a lever on the overflow cover to close the drain that the screws work loose and the gasket is no longer tight against the tub. Again since the sink is higher than the tub, the backup wastewater was also going into the tub or down the outside of the tub the from the overflow. You need to have someone check that the overflow gasket is even there. In the past if the overflow cover was ever remove the gasket will fall out to the floor and it will not be known that it did. Sometimes it gets missed from the day of install.

typical drain system

 

[Themp]

Can you determine from the opened up ceiling the path that the snake would take to clear the clog in the kitchen sink? Based on that path does it go anywhere near the bathtub drain, meaning could the snake caused shaking in drain lines that affected the bathtub? That looks like one powerful snake in the picture you posted. The drain line may not be supported correctly and the motion of the snake was transferred to the bathtub fitting. Just my guess here on why you had a leak after the snake was used.

I had a plumber snake my sewer line backwards from the yard into the house on a clog and it affected a pvc joint on a branch to the main sewer. We were running water from all the different places after the clog was cleared and this leak showed up right away in the crawlspace. All I had to do was re-cement it as it just completely came loose. It was a weak glue joint for sure and it showed up after snaking.

 

[Cacher_Chick]

There was something wrong with the tub drain if it came loose or came apart while the lines were being cleared.

 

[hj]

my dad used to say he could work on the boiler in the basement of a building, and the next day, the lady on the third floor at the far end of the complex would call and say her faucet has been leaking since he was there. If the piping was installed properly the snake would NOT have even been near the tub drainage.

 

[Dj2]

My friend the auto mechanic said that he has a customer who came in and said that ever since he had his brakes done here, the muffler has been making strange noises...and wanted the muffler fixed for free,

 

[Michael Young]

we had a clog in kitchen sink drain line, the plumber came out and went to get his power machine, I don't know if it was a power auger or something else. It cleared the kitchen drain. Within an hour we were in the garage and found water leaking from duct work. Contacted plumber he said it wasn't from the clog, was freshwater. The ceiling had Sheetrock and the plumber started tearing down the wet stuff to try to find the leak. We had plans to go so we had to turn the water off and leave it til next morning. Plumber returned next morning and did more demolition looking for leak, he determined it was not leaking from any of the fresh water lines. By this time the leaking had stopped and didn't return even with the water turned back on, the plumber contacted a rspestoration company and they came to start the dry out process for repair. I notified my insurance of the claim but it was a Saturday so they couldn't do anything until Monday. The water restoration guy discovered that there was debris in the hall bathtub. From this they discovered that the fittings for the bathtub drain had loosened. The consensus is that the pressure from clearing the clogged sink drain caused the water to back up the drain pipe into the bathtub and caused the fitting to fail and the leak to develop, The water restoration guy has talked to the plumber about this. The plumber has not been in contact with us about it. I had texted the plumber asking for my invoice since I had paid by check at time of service and he said he would email it. I still don't have the invoice.
My insurance will pay for the restoration after my $500 deductible. The repair to the tub we can handle ourselves, insurance won't cover.
My question is this. Does the plumber have any liability for causing the leak? If so should his insurance company be involved?
We are in process of moving to Fla and had to delay things for a week. We are putting the house on the market, we had not had any claims for insurance on it ever and now will have this as well as have to disclose to buyer.
I don't know if it's just our bad luck or a bad plumber?
Appreciate your advise, thanks!!

sounds like somebody is trying to fob the blame off on the plumber. When plumbing is installed, we fill it with a TEN FOOT HEAD OF WATER!!! It is *impossible* that cleaning your kitchen sink would cause you tub waste to magically fail. Nope. Not buying it. You're saying the bathroom drain had LOOSENED? If you're plumber can loosen a bathtub drain using his sewer snake, I'd like to know his trick. That would actually be a handy little trick.