Iron Out to clean Katalox Light?

[Bannerman]

The seller suggested to scoop out 1/2 or even 1 cf of the media, which is questionable due to the recommended by the manufacturer media depth.

The backwash rate is determined by the tank diameter and water temperature, not the quantity of media the tank contains. IOWs, removing 50% of the media in the exsisting tank will not provide a more thorough backwash of the remaining media.

If the backwash rate is insufficient due to your well pump flow rate, a smaller diameter tank will better utilize the pump's flow rate for back Washing. Because a smaller diameter tank will typically contain less media, to satisfy your home's flow rate requirements, 2 independent back Washing filters plumbed in parallel maybe required. Each filter would then backwash independently on an alternate schedule from the other.

You have mentioned 4-5 ppm ferrous iron passing through the KL media, but I do not recall the iron amount pre treatment. Post your most recent lab test report so all water conditions can then be reviewed and considered,

 

[Artem]

I think, I already mentioned some results as well as my attempt to use model400 chlorinator (quite a garbage from usability and functional perspective) and Aer Max as an aerator (which currently has 13 inch tank 7/8 filled with water).
There are results from the well
Copper: 0
Chlorine: 0
Hardness in Grains Per Gallon: 800ppm / 17.1 = 46.78
Hydrogen Sulfide: 0.3
Iron: 5
Manganese: 0.1
Nitrate: 0
Nitrite: 0
pH: 7.8
Sulfate: 0-250
Total Dissolved Solids: 800
Coliform Bacteria Present? No
Lead Present? 0
Pesticide? 0
Please let me know if I missed anything.

I appreciate your suggestion about tank size even though it contradicts the seller's opinion, which I value as well.
I have left 10 inch empty mineral tank (from Aer Max) and the dirty distributor from my good old 13 inch Birm filter.
I'm thinking to re-bed the 10 inch tank with Birm and use old Fleck AIO head capable of 6.4 gpm of backwash (should be perfect, based on my calculations about Birm) to see how it performs and compare it to KL.
There are to questions Ihave:
One of the issues I have is the old distributor(1.050 inch) is quite short. should I glue an extension or just simply buy a new one?
Should I try 8 years old Birm or just buy a 1cf of a new one?

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Reach4]

See https://www.watchwater.de/katalox-light-iron-manganese-and-hydrogen-sulfide-removal/ and click Calculation.

 

[Bannerman]

I appreciate your suggestion about tank size even though it contradicts the seller's opinion

Backwash flow is commonly expressed as GPM per square foot (ft2), not GPM per cubic foot (ft3) of media. The square foot is the tank's cross-sectional area.

Backwash flow is from the bottom of the tank, upwards through the media. The flow rate is spread across the entire cross-section of the tank so a larger tank diameter will result in less media lift compared to the same flow rate in a smaller diameter tank.

As an example, a 9" X 48" media tank is most commonly used for a 1 ft3 softener. A 9" diameter softener tank will typically require 2.0 GPM backwash flow rate for media expansion.

The same 1 ft3 softener resin may be placed into a 10" X 35" tank which will result in less media depth. Because the tank cross-section has increased, the backwash rate will then need to be 2.4 GPM to achieve equal media expansion as in the 9" tank.

The recommended backwash rate for KL is 10-15 GPM/ft2 to achieve 20-30% bed expansion. For a 10" tank, this will be 5.4-8.1 GPM.

For a 12" tank, this will be 7.8 - 12.0 GPM and 9.2 - 14 GPM for a 13" tank.

https://view.publitas.com/impact-water-products/2018-catalog-final/page/155


https://view.publitas.com/impact-water-products/2018-catalog-final/page/66

 

[Rotaris]

Hello folks, as to the original question the poster asked, can you use Iron out to clean media?

 

[Bannerman]

Iron Out is commonly utilized to remove ferrous iron deposits from the surface of water softener resin which is comprised of plastic beads. Ferrous iron (clear, unoxidized iron) will accumulate on the surface of the beads which is how a WS is able to remove iron. Unfortunately, ferrous iron will continue to accumulate on the resin beads and will impair the resin's ability to remove hardness.

Media utilized specifically for iron reduction is mainly comprised of minerals to first convert ferrous iron to ferric iron. Ferric iron is a solid (rust) which the media will then usually remove since it typically also acts as a sediment filter.

With iron filtration media, the Backwash flow rate, frequency and duration are vital so as to thoroughly remove the ferric iron accumulation from within the media bed.

Because iron removal media will not provide a suitable surface for ferrous iron to adhere, there will be likely little to be gained by using IO to clean the media, but IO maybe effective to remove iron deposits from the valve internals.

 

[Reach4]

I suspect a batch treatment of IO would be good. How do you introduce it?

https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/katalox-light-fe-mn-removal-system-backsliding.85903/

 

[Rotaris]

Thanks to all! And in my case I have air injection filter, how could I introduce the Iron out solution? the Clack valve does seem to be "Contaminated" with lots of Iron. Probably best to just Take it apart and soak the whole thing?
Sorry for the Hi-Jack

 

[Skyjumper]

you have a Clack valve, that's good. and yes it's probably full of iron, and the only effective way to clean it is to take it apart, replace the seal pack, clean the injector, etc. There's a bunch of youtube videos that show you how to do this. get the Clack service tool. This is something you will have do every year. you might also want to remove the valve from the tank and inspect the top screen (if you have one) or any other structure at the top of the tank that could be coated in rust sludge.

after you have done all that it probably makes sense to clean the media with bleach, certainly if you have iron bacteria. to do that you suck a bleach solution (1 cup to 8 gallons of water, split in two 5 gal buckets) into the air injection port during brine draw. use clear poly tubing of appropriate size. then shut it off (put it in bypass). let it sit overnight. the next morning do a 30 minute backwash, then let it go through it's air charge cycle.

you could clean the media first, then clean the valve. but the dirty valve might just muck up the cleaned media again. you get the idea.

btw if you have iron bacteria you will do this over and over and over until you kill the bacteria by shocking your well. then you'll have to shock your well again when it comes back... rinse, repeat, etc.

like bannerman says below....

 

[Bannerman]

remove the valve from the tank and inspect the top screen (if you have one)

For an iron removal filter, a top screen should not be used as will be prone to clogging with iron solids during backwashing.

An umbrella diffuser will be commonly installed on the riser tube so as to deflect the incoming water flow to prevent a hole being eroded into the media directly below where water enters through the control valve.

An umbrella diffuser is shown as part #27-105UMB on the left page here:
https://view.publitas.com/impact-water-products/2018-catalog-final/page/140

 

[ditttohead]

Here is a simple tutorial I did several years ago on how to rebuild the clack valve. A little citric acid soak on some of the parts, they are typically good to go.

 

[Rotaris]

Thanks for the info gents! Going to tackle this next week. I am sure I will have lots of questions. Thinking about a media replace as well. Katalox light 10x54 with 4 button clack, has been in service for 5 years. Looks like orange injector color and DLFC, is 065 what ever that means...have about max
I will start a new thread next week. Here's a little info on what I am dealing with.

Guys I am going to start a new thread, I jacked this one enough

 

[Reach4]

r and DLFC, is 065 what ever that means...

I suspect that means that the DLFC limits the backwash to 6.5 gpm -- too low of a flow for backwashing Katalox Light. That would be low in Illinois, and would be lower still for Alabama. (water temperature matters).

A bigger DLFC should solve that, but you still would then want to know that the well pump can deliver the higher gpm.

 

[Rotaris]

Thanks Reach, I started my own thread with some more info tonight. Please check it out. Great site, great people, Great help!

 

[Artem]

Hi folks,

Some updates on my side:
I took apart my 12 inch KL filter and removed 50% of the media (1cf left).
Media was compressed quite a bit, almost like a rock. It took some significant effort to make it send like again.
I suspect this as the main reason of KL filter failing after month of usage.

My next step is to listen Bannerman's suggestion and repack 10 inch tank with 1 cf media and try to backwash it with 6, 7 and 8.4 gpm, whichever gives the right rise of the media.

I think, I cracked vortech tank distributor in 12 inch tank. Is this part replaceable or I need to buy a new tank?

 

[Reach4]

I think, I cracked vortech tank distributor in 12 inch tank. Is this part replaceable or I need to buy a new tank?

I think they may have a lifetime guarantee, but perhaps not for this. I don't think the distributor tube is usually replaceable. How far down is the crack?

If you have more KL available, the normal dose for a 10x54 tank is 1.5 cuft. A strong IO soak might make the stuck media release.

 

[Artem]

How far down is the crack?

The crack is few inches down the pipe. I might be able to cut the pipe and glue an extension as I did for the old regular distributor.

A strong IO soak might make the stuck media release.

I tried to soak a few compressed KL media stones about an inch in diameter in a glass with IronOut solution, which I usually mix for softener cleaning (1 cup for 1/2 gal of water). Subjectively, they got slightly loose, but the binding force is still quite strong. Should I increase the concentration?

I have one more retarded question: I'm going to repack 10 inch iron filter. Can I mix KL and Birm? The weight of the media is about the same....

 

[Reach4]

I tried to soak a few compressed KL media stones about an inch in diameter in a glass with IronOut solution, which I usually mix for softener cleaning (1 cup for 1/2 gal of water). Subjectively, they got slightly loose, but the binding force is still quite strong. Should I increase the concentration?

Maybe try straight vinegar, and more time.

I have one more retarded question: I'm going to repack 10 inch iron filter. Can I mix KL and Birm? The weight of the media is about the same....

http://www.birmfilter.com/products/main-products/birm/ says

When using Birm® for iron removal, it is necessary that the water: contain no oil or hydrogen sulfide, organic matter not to exceed 4-5 ppm, the D.O. content equal at least 15% of the iron content with a pH of 6.8 or more.​

 

[Artem]

Thank you for the information, I've read the theory. Unfortunately, in the practice my old Birm has a way better oxidation power, which is perhaps because of the wrong application
Anyway, I've repacked my 10 inch tank and accidentally put 39 inches of media (plan was 32). I'm running the cycle with 6gpm right now. The bead rises about 3.9 inches, almost 10% of expansion.
Do you think, I should try higher flow rates or just observe the iron levels for now?

 

[Reach4]

Do you think, I should try higher flow rates or just observe the iron levels for now?

I would like more... maybe dancing around the bottom of your top basket, if you could.