Install American Standard Princeton Bathtub w/Integral overflow on concrete slab

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wwhitney

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See most recent post, re type of drain in tub- the 1st paragraph.
Yes, I didn't quite grok until now that the tub comes with a drain that you need to use, and that it is intended to be installed with a brass nut that you tighten from underneath. Meaning that part has to be installed before dropping the tub in.

In the second photo of the thread, what's going on with the wall framing shown, and will there be access to the area behind that framing after the tub is set? If so, then how about this idea:

Figure out a final connection geometry that has a no-hub coupling right next to the san-tee (with a short nipple) below the bottom plate, and that has no slip joint connections. Remove some of the bottom plate and (hopefully only a little) concrete as required so that after tub setting, you can reach the no hub coupling from the other side of the wall framing. Preattach the trap and trap arm to the tub, with the no-hub coupling on one side of the joint, folded back over itself, with the banded cover slid onto the trap arm. Set the tub, make sure the nipple and trap arm are lined up and the ends are tight to the rubber, unfold the coupling, slide the banded cover over, and torque to 60 psi.

Cheers, Wayne
 
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Wwhitney et al, I've put in this same type tub with proficiency on upper level floors that have access panel from below. My present scenario, that you've all helped me get my head around, on the slab just has the slab physical limitations re access and setting down tub in alcove, that confound and elimiate as practical/doable a lot of the more usual approaches and techniques. Was wanting to find (miracle) fix like how shower pan is set down with gasket and sealing from above, in fact that's my adjacent bathroom in process at this same time/job with shower pan where tub used to be. Had to go with reducer bushing to 1.5" there. But of course, no tubs with 2" drains for me on this tub replacment.
 

wwhitney

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Do you not have access for the "no-hub coupling as last connection" idea?

It would be contrary to the manufacturer's instructions, but you could omit the brass nut and rely on threading the factory drain into the tub shoe Tuttle suggested (I believe those are the same threads) to compress the factory gasket between the tub shoe and the bottom of the tub. That would let you install as per my first post today.

If the strainer has an overflow hole on only one side, you'd need to mark the final orientation you need on the strainer when tightening it. And if the projecting threads on the strainer are longer than the threaded portion of the tub shoe, you'd need to cut the strainer shorter (with the nut on it, so that you can remove the nut after cutting, to chase the threads).

Or else find a 1-1/2" strainer with overflow holes that is the correct length.

Cheers, Wayne
 
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wwhitney: re In the second photo of the thread, what's going on with the wall framing shown, and will there be access to the area behind that framing after the tub is set? If so, then how about this idea:
No, it looks promising but all sorts of hindrances, in addition to the different exterior front end of tub with heavy americast coating and additional space for integral stop that mostly blocks out access from only suitable angle to get into concete pit with hands. You can see some of what I describe in earlier pics of underside of tub.

Figure out a final connection geometry that has a no-hub coupling right next to the san-tee (with a short nipple) below the bottom plate, and that has no slip joint connections. [my best shot so far is as written in post 7, 3rd paragraph, also cut/pasted below] Remove some of the bottom plate and (hopefully only a little) concrete as required so that after tub setting, you can reach the no hub coupling from the other side [not happening or doable- dead end idea only because you can't see whole configuration- trust me, I'm not from the government] of the wall framing. [that's other bathroom, precisely where shower pan will sit in very similar configuration. through thick wall and about another thick sill plate totalling perhaps 12"] Preattach the trap and trap arm to the tub,
[you lost me from this point forward] with the no-hub coupling on one side of the joint, folded back over itself, with the banded cover slid onto the trap arm. Set the tub, make sure the nipple and trap arm are lined up and the ends are tight to the rubber, unfold the coupling, slide the banded cover over, and torque to 60 psi.

At back end of trap, will substitute in short galvi nipple for brass waste connector and weak abs mip fitting in picture, as was suggested. Nipple had been in that place for past 50+ yrs. Will use recommened no hub coupling to attach nipple to abs pipe stub welded into hub at back end of trap, providing some manuverability and flexibility for drop down nightmare fit, per suggestion above.
 

wwhitney

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[you lost me from this point forward]
That was a description of how, if the no-hub coupling will be accessible after the tub is set, to do things so the no hub coupling is the only connection you make up after setting the tub. I can expand on that if you figure out that the no-hub coupling will be accessible after the tub is set.

As to brass for the nipple, galvanized is not something I would consider for a new drain installation. It's something I remove whenever accessible (except possibly vents that show no sign of internal rust) and replace with a material that won't rust out after 50 years. [Usually when I encounter it, it's already 50+ years old, so it's already rusted inside.] So I'd spring $20 or $30 for a short 1-1/2" brass nipple rather than putting in galvanized, if a plastic male adapter is judged too weak (news to me).

Cheers, Wayne
 
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Wwhitney re post 23-

Sure, but not planning of utilizing coupling there, but rather at downstream end of drainage after abs stub welding to trap hub to connect to galvi nipple, vs. what's in picture 5 & 6 of 3rd post above.

Re your 2nd and 3rd paragraphs, don't want to fabricate or modify the new drain as it is the proper drain, just not designed to accomodate normal tub shoe. Its threads ok for show, but its really designed for straight down drainage, as there in no other/separate over flow, which is why my configuration is set around dropping down smartly either as shown in earlier pictures after trap is line up and in place. Your techniques and suggestions are all sound to me, I agree and already see eye to eye on that if I was leaning that direction, so thanks.
 
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Wwhitney
Careful eyeballing ahead of dry fit of just tub, and taking into account how front area of tub extends further forward and about lays close to flat on ground, clearly informed me some concrete will be removed. Not overkill, but no one wants to address concrete if not required. But that's what I got, so shortly I'll be fine tuning just how much must be removed and where with dry fit of tub only and crawling around some to evaluate and mark.
 

wwhitney

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Sure, but not planning of utilizing coupling there, but rather at downstream end of drainage after abs stub welding to trap hub to connect to galvi nipple, vs. what's in picture 5 & 6 of 3rd post above.
Not following. The "no-hub last" idea would require a no-hub basically where the brass trap adapter is in your first picture in the thread--as close to access through the wall framing as possible.

Re your 2nd and 3rd paragraphs, don't want to fabricate or modify the new drain as it is the proper drain, just not designed to accomodate normal tub shoe.
Also not really following. In picture 3, in the final installed position, how much will the strainer threads extend below the bottom of the tub? The Westbrae 442 adapter seems to have a thread depth of 3/4" . So if the strainer threads extend less than that, you shouldn't have to modify the strainer.

If the threads extend more, I can see your reluctance to modify them. And reluctance to use the brass nut the manufacturer calls for makes sense, although every other tub can be installed by threading the strainer into place into a tub shoe.

Cheers, Wayne
 
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From cast piece in concrete below sill plate, intend to go with galvi nipple [coupled] to abs stub glued in hub at downstream end of trap. My words may have confused.. sorry

roughly 1.25+" length of drain from bottom edge of tub, but no way abs piece is going to = as substitute for that heavy brass slip washer and heavy brass nut that came along with thick rubber washer, all that attach below tub [And I do, I do, intend to use them. No reluctance to use thick rubber seal, brass slip ring or brass nut]. Again, drain (3" total length] not intended for basic, normal tub shoe application that's attached by screwing strainer down thru tub from inside of tub, but rather for straight down install like what I got, wherein drain is fully assembled and secured from below, before setting down tub. I added short brass tub screwed into bottom of drain and abs adapter so I could cement abs adapter into upstream trap hub, and when lowering down tub, slip through and into white nut/abs adapter the brass tube. Not saying some creative stuff isn't done in all sorts of circumstances but looking to keep as simple as this job dictates, without gumeshoeing.

5th and 6th pictures from 3rd post of underside of tub show each piece in line through to cementing into hub. The first few pic's show a sort of hub or buldge just above drain, assuming tub was down ground, and that hub partially goes into concrete cavity. The top of drain where it enters tub, is not the flat bottom of tub.

Added some additional pictures too here
 

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Thanks all for your best recommendations. Managed to snatch success from the jaws of fine planning, patient step by step work, etc. That drop tub straight down idea in this tight alcove at 65 years of age, was clearly not happening once I initially managed to get tub in position. One of you cautioned me on that up front so it was on my mind. If not for drywall all being removed, approach I took would not have been possible.

Concrete was easy with bosch bulldog rotohammer I've had for years. Took about 1.5 hours total with all the fiddling and dryfitting, etc. Dug pit dirt deep enough to be able to drop trap if ever needing to dissassemble after tub and surround and all finish work done.

Pictures show view above, below and looking in from exterior access panel. Until base mud sets up overnight (used very little, and thinner given waffle pattern of americast below tub) and will do water test for drainage. Once verified will get on with drywall and the adjacent bath's shower pan which will be easy-peasy compared to handling tub solo. Once I managed to get tub where it would go initially and without damage, realized it's not going to allow me solo to completely remove it, replace it time and again, lift it and set it back down, etc., so from that point forward tub was pulled up and forward from far long end/side towards me and cocked at ange and supported, not quite to point of resting on skirt. From that point forward, pretty straight forward. Tub perfect level.. hope no squeeking when I check her out in morning. Screws along tile flange have it secured real good.

You guys are the best.. again thanks
 

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