Information Overload - Ozone, Chlorine, etc?

[Dice]

Guys, with all of this information overload online and through various water treatment companies I need someone to bring me back down to reality.

I'm on a private well that has IRB and about 3ppm ferrous iron. Every water company that has come out has suggested chlorination with a contact tank, but I am so extremely concerned about the byproducts of chlorination that I've put off doing this for way too long.

I have also come across a lot of information regarding ozone generators and using them in conjunction with a holding tank, which would both oxidize the iron and disinfect the water, but I haven't been able to find anyone local who supplies ozone products.

Can someone point me in the right direction, please! I'm losing my mind over here with all of the options and information.

 

[WorthFlorida]

Sorry but I don't know anything about ozone treatment but here is a article from a google search, "ozone water treatment disadvantages"
https://drinking-water.extension.org/drinking-water-treatment-ozone/#:~:text=The greatest drawback with ozone,tank for the treated water.


Please hold your breath and don't panic. Most of the US municipal water treatment systems for domestic water is chlorinated and no one as yet have died from drinking it. Of course there are many articles about the by products and its all scare tactics to sell you filters, etc. Where are you located in Florida. I lived in S. Florida for 26 years and any well less than 50 feet is clear water iron, below that it is sulfur water (usually for irrigation wells), and around 150 feet down or more does it become good for domestic use.

When a chlorinator is used for iron removal, a sand filter or a whole house filter is used to filter out the iron oxide after the blending tank, then a whole house carbon filter will remove most concerning chemicals. All filters and water treatment of any kind take maintenance. If three companies recommend a chlorinator and a blending tank, it probably works best for your type and level of iron in your part of Florida.

To help out here you can alway install a Reverse Osmosis filter under the kitchen sink for drinking water. RO removes most minerals in th ewater.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Dice]

Sorry but I don't know anything about ozone treatment but here is a article from a google search, "ozone water treatment disadvantages"
https://drinking-water.extension.org/drinking-water-treatment-ozone/#:~:text=The greatest drawback with ozone,tank for the treated water.


Please hold your breath and don't panic. Most of the US municipal water treatment systems for domestic water is chlorinated and no one as yet have died from drinking it. Of course there are many articles about the by products and its all scare tactics to sell you filters, etc. Where are you located in Florida. I lived in S. Florida for 26 years and any well less than 50 feet is clear water iron, below that it is sulfur water (usually for irrigation wells), and around 150 feet down or more does it become good for domestic use.

When a chlorinator is used for iron removal, a sand filter or a whole house filter is used to filter out the iron oxide after the blending tank, then a whole house carbon filter will remove most concerning chemicals. All filters and water treatment of any kind take maintenance. If three companies recommend a chlorinator and a blending tank, it probably works best for your type and level of iron in your part of Florida.

To help out here you can alway install a Reverse Osmosis filter under the kitchen sink for drinking water. RO removes most minerals in th ewater.

I'm in the Central Florida area. Our well is around the 150ft mark, and we definitely still get clear water iron at that depth. This is my first time owning a house with a well and I just don't want to make the wrong decision since it's a costly mistake to make! Thank you for the reassurance!

 

[Bannerman]

First needed is a comprehensive lab test for the raw well water. As you mention 3 ppm iron, it seems some testing has been performed but such little information suggests whatever testing was performed for free by suppliers with an interest in selling equipment.

If a full lab test has not been performed, National Labs offer a standard WaterCheck well package that will be appropriate.
http://watercheck.myshopify.com/?aff=5

 

[Reach4]

I'm on a private well that has IRB and about 3ppm ferrous iron. Every water company that has come out has suggested chlorination with a contact tank, but I am so extremely concerned about the byproducts of chlorination that I've put off doing this for way too long.

Consider hydrogen peroxide. It's setup is similar to chlorine, but it produces oxygen-- not chlorine. There are tests to measure the ppm.... cost a little more than chlorine tests. The allowable residual in drinking water is higher. H2O2 can kill bacteria too. It just needs a higher level and/or longer contact time.

Chlorine is better for killing bacteria. Peroxide (H2O2) is better at reacting with iron.

A backwashing GAC (carbon) tank can remove both before the water goes to the softener.

A good well and plumbing sanitizing will help, but your iron level is high. It will knock down the IRB for some amount of time. From what I read, IRB is slow growing. https://terrylove.com/forums/index....izing-extra-attention-to-4-inch-casing.65845/ is my writeup. It will help.

 

[ditttohead]

I would avoid H2o2 when bacterial issues are present. The level of H2o2 for a good kill is a little higher than most people are willing to deal with (cost). Ozone is really quite simple so long as you have a traditional 30-50 type of well pump and a large tank. If you have a CSV or similar design then the ozone becomes a bit more complex. Here is a 3d cad drawing I did of a fairly typical ozone system design.

 

[Dice]

I owuld avoid H2o2 when bacterial issues are present. The level of H2o2 for a good kill is a little higher than most people are willing to deal with (cost). Ozone is really quite simple so long as you have a traditional 30-50 type of well pump and a large tank. If you have a CSV or similar design then the ozone becomes a bit more complex. Here is a 3d cad drawing I did of a fairly typical ozone system design. View attachment 73873

Based on what I've read about H202 it would indeed be a little too costly for me to want to pursue that route.
I am not sure what my pump is set at (whether 30/50 or otherwise), but it is your typical submersed well pump that automatically cuts on / off as needed. I apologize for being a bit dense, but could you further explain the components of the diagram you sketched up..? From right to left, assuming the black cylinder in the bottom right corner is the well head, it looks like a particulate filter attached to the ozone generator with ozone being injected just before the well's pressure tank, then I am unsure if that is a contact tank after the pressure tank or a type of filter such as GAC or otherwise, then a softener?

Aside from extremely expensive commercial options, the most common type of ozone generator I've been able to find for end users are all like the Triple-O Ozone Generator. Do you have any other options or products you would recommend?

 

[Dice]

Consider hydrogen peroxide. It's setup is similar to chlorine, but it produces oxygen-- not chlorine. There are tests to measure the ppm.... cost a little more than chlorine tests. The allowable residual in drinking water is higher. H2O2 can kill bacteria too. It just needs a higher level and/or longer contact time.

Chlorine is better for killing bacteria. Peroxide (H2O2) is better at reacting with iron.

A backwashing GAC (carbon) tank can remove both before the water goes to the softener.

A good well and plumbing sanitizing will help, but your iron level is high. It will knock down the IRB for some amount of time. From what I read, IRB is slow growing. https://terrylove.com/forums/index....izing-extra-attention-to-4-inch-casing.65845/ is my writeup. It will help.

That is a very interesting write up. Thank you for sharing that! I do intend to sanitize my well casing and plumping very soon; however, I do still need to ensure that my family and I have a constant supply of disinfected / safe water even if the IRB is eliminated by shocking / sanitizing once a year or so. Thank you for your input.

 

[Reach4]

I am not sure what my pump is set at (whether 30/50 or otherwise)

You have a pressure gauge on your system. You can also buy a garden-hose-thread pressure gauge, some of which have a "lazy hand" that notes the peak pressure.

 

[Dice]

First needed is a comprehensive lab test for the raw well water. As you mention 3 ppm iron, it seems some testing has been performed but such little information suggests whatever testing was performed for free by suppliers with an interest in selling equipment.

If a full lab test has not been performed, National Labs offer a standard WaterCheck well package that will be appropriate.
http://watercheck.myshopify.com/?aff=5

Our last third party comprehensive test was done a while ago. I have just ordered another one which should be about a week or so for results.

 

[Reach4]

From right to left, assuming the black cylinder in the bottom right corner is the well head, it looks like a particulate filter attached to the ozone generator with ozone being injected just before the well's pressure tank, then I am unsure if that is a contact tank after the pressure tank or a type of filter such as GAC or otherwise, then a softener?

I infer that tank before the softener is a contact+ settling tank, because of the blow-off port at the bottom for expelling settled sediment.

 

[ditttohead]

Correct, ozone and h2o2 require very little contact time so a smaller contact tank can be used in some applications. We make our own contact tanks for these applications. We also make the ozone injection bypass, very easy to use for most applications.

 

[Dice]

Correct, ozone and h2o2 require very little contact time so a smaller contact tank can be used in some applications. We make our own contact tanks for these applications. We also make the ozone injection bypass, very easy to use for most applications.

Got test results back and prominent aspects are:

Iron Bacteria Present
pH: 7.61
Hardness: 12.35 gpg
Iron: 3.45 ppm (seems to all be ferrous)
Manganese: 0.02ppm

What do you think of this equipment proposal I was given? Parts of it do not make sense to me which I will elaborate on below:

1 - 24 gpd Unidose Electromagnetic Pump w Bleeder Valve for priming
1- 33 gal Solution Tank (Blue)
1- 120 gal Flexlight Fiberglass Retention Tank
1 - View Flow Filter to ensure no sand, silt or sediment goes past retention tank
1 - 13x54 Multimedia (Katalox + GAC) Dechlor Fully Automatic Taste & Odor Tank + Air Injection
1 - 48,000 Grain Fully Automatic Clack Gold Wtr Sftnr with 250lb Cap Brine Tank
Garnet as bedding media in all tanks


What I don't understand is why I would need a spin down filter (the view flow filter) after the retention tank if 1) the retention tank will have a blow down at the bottom of it, and 2) I am going to have a multimedia dechlorination tank immediately after the retention tank filled with a suggested Katalox and Carbon. It's my understanding that Katalox can filter down to about 5 microns - is this sufficient for the sand, precipitated iron, and most other large particles..? If not, are there any other media combinations you might recommend? Or is his suggestion of the view flow filter spot on..?

The other part I do not understand is why he would suggest an air injection head on my dechlorination / multimedia tank. If the iron is oxidized by chlorine in the contact tank and then physically filtered out at the next stage is there a benefit to having an air injection head here that I am missing? If anything I would think this would want to be avoided, just in case, since I have bacterial iron (even though it would hopefully all be killed in the contact tank).

I'm sorry, I know this is a lot but I appreciate all of your help!

 

[Water Pro]

no spin-down should be needed unless it's mostly ferric Fe coming in to the house. I wouldn't mix GAC and Katalox in one tank (the densities are much different). The solution tank only need to be 20 gal (Cl loses 50% potency over 6 months). Lastly the GAC tank is much too large. I have no experience with garnet as underbedding. also, it's somewhat difficult to distinguish how much ferric vs ferrous Fe you may have, but typically the greater the odor, the more likely to be mostly ferrous Fe. hope that helps

 

[Dice]

no spin-down should be needed unless it's mostly ferric Fe coming in to the house. I wouldn't mix GAC and Katalox in one tank (the densities are much different). The solution tank only need to be 20 gal (Cl loses 50% potency over 6 months). Lastly the GAC tank is much too large. I have no experience with garnet as underbedding. also, it's somewhat difficult to distinguish how much ferric vs ferrous Fe you may have, but typically the greater the odor, the more likely to be mostly ferrous Fe. hope that helps

Wow, thank you for all of the input, it definitely helps! Our water smells very strongly of iron, and there are is almost no colour nor any iron solids when it comes out of the tap. Only after it sits for a while do red/orange deposits form.

Because of the chlorination and contact tank the iron should be ferric by the time it gets to the spin-down filter right? The way that I understand it is that ferric iron is a solid particle that then needs physical filtration down to a certain micron size (although I do not know what micron size that is), not chemical / oxidation - is that correct? If that's the case then the air injection katalox the water guy suggested seems entirely redundant.

Is there a better / different way to filter the post chlorination iron that you have had success with? I also have sand / other sediment that gets into the house from time to time that I was hoping the katalox would catch, but if katalox is out of the equation then I'm not sure what other media could be used in conjunction with GAC to get the fine particles?

 

[Bannerman]

Katalox Light is the media to use to remove the Ferric iron solids and as it will filter down to about 5 microns, it will be effective to remove sand and silt also. If there is heavy sand/silt evident from the well, you could then use a spindown filter such as an Atlas Filtri Hydra directly after the pressure tank and before further water treatment.

A carbon filter system will be effective to remove any residual chlorine as well as other contaminants after the KL filter.

As mentioned, KL should not be mixed together in the same tank as the carbon, but each should be installed in separate backwashing tanks.

 

[Dice]

Katalox Light is the media to use to remove the Ferric iron solids and as it will filter down to about 5 microns, it will be effective to remove sand and silt also. If there is heavy sand/silt evident from the well, you could then use a spindown filter such as an Atlas Filtri Hydra directly after the pressure tank and before further water treatment.

A carbon filter system will be effective to remove any residual chlorine as well as other contaminants after the KL filter.

As mentioned, KL should not be mixed together in the same tank as the carbon, but each should be installed in separate backwashing tanks.

I see. I do not have a large amount of sediment coming from the well, only small amounts here and there.

I apologize - I assumed that the ferric iron could be physically removed with the GAC (or Catalytic Carbon if that would work better), maybe or maybe not combined with another media in the same tank, in order to eliminate the separate katalox tank entirely.
What size GAC and Katalox tanks do you think would be appropriate in this situation?

 

[Reach4]

Is there a better / different way to filter the post chlorination iron that you have had success with? I also have sand / other sediment that gets into the house from time to time that I was hoping the katalox would catch, but if katalox is out of the equation then I'm not sure what other media could be used in conjunction with GAC to get the fine particles?

I would think maybe a DGD-5005-20 Pentek cartridge in a 20x4.5 Pentek Big Blue housing. You would like to have a 3-valve bypass around that, or at least keep an extra o-ring on hand. If the housing were to start leaking big time with no bypass, your water system would be out of commission.

There are a lot of different cartridges that fit that housing.

I am not a pro. Others may have a better idea.

I would add boiler drain valves between sections for sampling, and other potential use. Most important would be a valve to let you test the residual chlorine after the settling/contact tank. Those can also mount GHT pressure gauges to see what pressure drop different things have.

 

[Dice]

I would think maybe a DGD-5005-20 Pentek cartridge in a 20x4.5 Pentek Big Blue housing. You would like to have a 3-valve bypass around that, or at least keep an extra o-ring on hand. If the housing were to start leaking big time with no bypass, your water system would be out of commission.

There are a lot of different cartridges that fit that housing.

I am not a pro. Others may have a better idea.

I would add boiler drain valves between sections for sampling, and other potential use. Most important would be a valve to let you test the residual chlorine after the settling/contact tank. Those can also mount GHT pressure gauges to see what pressure drop different things have.

Understood, thank you for your input! Whatever I have installed I was going to make sure that each individual component could be bypassed for future maintenance etc. Great call on the valves as well!

 

[Dice]

I know I am over thinking all of this so thank you all for sticking with me.

The suggestion of Katalox threw me off because I thought that carbon could effectively remove ferric iron, although I don't know if regular GAC or catalytic is more effective at doing this. Is this incorrect?

UPDATE:

I've just had another company get back to me and suggest an air injection katalox filter with a softener following it. They said that I would not need the chlorine injection system even though I have bacterial iron because katalox is effective at dealing with bacterial iron.
I've been shying away from air injection units because I thought that the air increases bacterial iron issues..?! Help