Increasing domestic water pressure

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North Jersey

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What caveats should I consider as I increase my pressure switch setting from 40/60? With a new pressure switch (and potentially a new well pump), should I try 80/100?

I'm planning on adding two 119 gallon pressure tanks. I expect I'll also have to upgrade my well pump. I've found no well records and no well pump nameplate, but I'm guessing the pump will need to overcome a maximum of 240 feet of TDH. Based on the electrical evidence (15A single pole breaker), I expect I have a 1/2HP 115V pump.
 

Reach4

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Two 119 gallon pressure tanks? To what end?

What do you think an increase in pressure will do for you? If your flow at the tub or shower is slow, you probably have an obstruction. Put a garden hose thread on the drain for the WH, and see what the pressure is there while you are filling a tub etc.

So except for exceptional circumstance, I would not do that. One such circumstance is that the pressure switch is at the bottom of the hill, and there is a 40 ft altitude rise to the house. But if the pressure switch is in the basement, I would not go higher than maybe 55/75, and again, I suspect there is a blockage that is your real problem.

Clogged filter. Clogged softener. Crushed pipe, whatever.
 

North Jersey

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Two 119 gallon pressure tanks would provide sufficient drawdown to address the pressure increase. The existing tank is only 44 gallons, so I'd be adding a tank at some point anyway. My family of nine uses a lot more water than the two prior owners, especially when I'm topping off the swimming pool or pressure washing. The pressure tanks will offer a measure of relief for the well pump, and they will also permit a little more reserve in the event I have a standby generator failure during a power outage.

I just dispensed 1.63 GPM from the kitchen faucet and 2.13 GPM from a first-floor shower. I couldn't locate my test gauge, but the pressure appears to be comparable to that at my last house. We're dissatisfied in general with both the volume and the pressure at this house and at previous houses with well water and fixtures of recent manufacture (both high-end and builder grade). We would like to buy new fixtures, but so many "premium" fixtures lack removable flow restrictors and they are constrained to ridiculously low volume.

I was thinking I could up the water pressure and locate some aesthetically pleasing fixtures with fixed orifices to achieve the performance we're looking for. What sorts of issues should I expect with appliances and fixtures in the 80-100 psi range? Maybe I could add individual regulators for particularly sensitive applications.
 

John Gayewski

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Two 119 gallon pressure tanks would provide sufficient drawdown to address the pressure increase. The existing tank is only 44 gallons, so I'd be adding a tank at some point anyway. My family of nine uses a lot more water than the two prior owners, especially when I'm topping off the swimming pool or pressure washing. The pressure tanks will offer a measure of relief for the well pump, and they will also permit a little more reserve in the event I have a standby generator failure during a power outage.

I just dispensed 1.63 GPM from the kitchen faucet and 2.13 GPM from a first-floor shower. I couldn't locate my test gauge, but the pressure appears to be comparable to that at my last house. We're dissatisfied in general with both the volume and the pressure at this house and at previous houses with well water and fixtures of recent manufacture (both high-end and builder grade). We would like to buy new fixtures, but so many "premium" fixtures lack removable flow restrictors and they are constrained to ridiculously low volume.

I was thinking I could up the water pressure and locate some aesthetically pleasing fixtures with fixed orifices to achieve the performance we're looking for. What sorts of issues should I expect with appliances and fixtures in the 80-100 psi range? Maybe I could add individual regulators for particularly sensitive applications.
Your fixtures are not designed to be used with pressure that high at the fixture itself. The info on them will say they can take up to 100 or 120, but for sustained use they will be subject to wear and tear and need serviced or replaced at a much higher rate.

Have you looked into a cycle stop valve?

You need to check what your getting for pressure at different locations in your house. Measure a shower your not happy with and see what gmp your getting.

A lot of newer fixture don't have removable flowrestrictors anymore. The flow restriction is built into the cartridges or shower heads and cannot be adjusted without drilling holes.
 

LLigetfa

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Have you looked into a cycle stop valve?
I think the OP has preconceived notions about how the CSV works.

Code in many places state that water pressure should not exceed 80 PSI and to that end many municipalities mandate pressure regulating valves.

It has not been made clear whether the OP has a volume problem that is masquerading as a pressure problem. Increasing the pressure will reduce the volume the pump can produce but then the OP stated he might replace the pump presumably with one that can produce more GPM at higher pressure.
 

Reach4

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"I couldn't locate my test gauge, but the pressure appears to be comparable to that at my last house. "
GHT pressure gauges are usually under $20.
 

Bannerman

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The pressure limit for residential plumbing is 80 psi. For the majority of applications, 60 psi is usually more than sufficient.

The pressure tanks will offer a measure of relief for the well pump, and they will also permit a little more reserve in the event I have a standby generator failure during a power outage.
Each 119 gallon tank will provide approx 30 gallons of drawdown. Since some water will be commonly drawn off for general use after the pump has filled the tanks, there is no predicting how much water the tank(s) will continue to provide during a power outage. If 58 gallons had been previously drawn off, that will leave only about 2 gallons remaining before the pump becomes activated. If power is lost at that point, then two 119 gallon pressure tanks may only provide 3-5 gallons (in consideration of the usual 2 psi lower pre-charge margin below the pressure switch cut in pressure).

I just dispensed 1.63 GPM from the kitchen faucet and 2.13 GPM from a first-floor shower.
Depending on which aerator is installed on the kitchen faucet, and the capacity of the shower head (usual max flow = 2.5 GPM), those flow rates maybe entirely reasonable.

Some devices utilize flow restrictors that are designed to further reduce the flow rate as pressure increases, so as to maintain an equal flow rate across a wide pressure range.

The pressure delivered to your home is governed by the capability of your well pump, the level of water within the well and the pressure switch settings. A larger pressure tank alone will not increase pressure, but will only reduce the frequency of pump cycling. The appropriate pressure tank size will result in the pump running for 60-120 seconds (120 seconds preferred) once the pump becomes activated and there is no further flow to faucets/appliances.

With 60 gallons drawdown, the supply pressure will be either dropping while that 60 gallons is being drawn from the pressure tanks, or the supply pressure will be increasing once the pump becomes activated and is replacing the water drawn off from the tanks.

A much better option will be to equip your system with a Cycle Stop Valve. A CSV will prevent the pump from cycling anytime more than 1 GPM is flowing to fixtures. Because the CSV is preventing cycling, a much smaller pressure tank maybe utilized, typically as small as a 4.5 gallon size for a single family residence.

When equipped with a 4.5 gallon tank and 60/80 pressure switch, using only ~1 gallon of water will cause the pump to become activated, which will then result in 70 psi being continually supplied to home fixtures for as long as water continues to be utilized. Once water is no longer needed, the pump will continue to operate for an additional 30+ seconds to continue to refill the pressure tank's remaining capacity up to the 80 psi shut-off pressure.

 
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Jeff H Young

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"I couldn't locate my test gauge, but the pressure appears to be comparable to that at my last house. "
GHT pressure gauges are usually under $20.
pretty important to have when getting technical btw guages are available for far less than 20 bucks at the big box stores or amazon , or supplyhouse.com to name 4 easy places
 

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Thanks Bannerman. A CSV is exactly what they need. Even an 80/100 pressure switch setting means your system pressure is always fluctuating between 80 and 100 PSI. The larger the pressure tank(s), the longer it will linger at the 80 PSI mark. A 70/90 pressure switch with the CSV set to deliver a strong constant 80 PSI would feel much stronger. But the CSV1A is adjustable between 15 PSI and 150 PSI, so you can have as much constant pressure as you want. However, a lot of people who have been living with a 40/60 switch, will swear the pressure was dramatically increased when a CSV is added and set to deliver 50 PSI constant. Constant pressure always seems stronger than the varying pressure of pressure switch only control.

With a Cycle Stop Valve the larger the tank, the less time the system will see constant pressure. Although, the higher the pressure switch setting, the larger the pressure tank needs to be. With up to 50/70 I would use a 10 gallon tank with the CSV. With up to 80/100 I would use at least a 20 gallon tank, and so on.

Pump cycling is one of the biggest causes of low pressure. Using a CSV to eliminate the cycling delivers strong constant pressure, works with a much smaller pressure tank, and makes everything in the pump system last longer. If you have "preconceived notions of how the CSV works", you need to get over those if you want good pressure and a long lasting pump system at an economical price.
 

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We run a 30/50 pressure switch with our 20gal tank at our cabin. It is perfectly fine for what we use it for.

A relative who is a plumber (and not a "weekend warrior") informed us that running less than 25psi is a headache (under sink water filters NEED 40psi quite often) and more than 75-80psi is mechanically destructive, especially on older fittings/fixtures.

The "sweet spot" for most homes is in the 35-65 psi range, depending on factors such as:
* Number of fixtures/outlets
* Length of the pipe runs and diameter
* Number of floors with fixtures
* Number of people in the house

The largest pressure tank he has installed (residentially) is an 80gal, but has seen only one setup with a larger tank.
Nearly all single level dwellings use a 30/50 or 40/60 setup, but in odd cases where they are on a well with a 3 level home and fixtures for a bathroom in the top level, he saw a 50/70.

That said, he urged me to stick with the 30/50 unless we noticed issues or complaints.
 

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We run a 30/50 pressure switch with our 20gal tank at our cabin. It is perfectly fine for what we use it for.

A relative who is a plumber (and not a "weekend warrior") informed us that running less than 25psi is a headache (under sink water filters NEED 40psi quite often) and more than 75-80psi is mechanically destructive, especially on older fittings/fixtures.

The "sweet spot" for most homes is in the 35-65 psi range, depending on factors such as:
* Number of fixtures/outlets
* Length of the pipe runs and diameter
* Number of floors with fixtures
* Number of people in the house

The largest pressure tank he has installed (residentially) is an 80gal, but has seen only one setup with a larger tank.
Nearly all single level dwellings use a 30/50 or 40/60 setup, but in odd cases where they are on a well with a 3 level home and fixtures for a bathroom in the top level, he saw a 50/70.

That said, he urged me to stick with the 30/50 unless we noticed issues or complaints.
It is your water system. You can have as much pressure as you want. It irritates me when someone with a well complains about pressure and wanting "city like" pressure. No city has as good of pressure as I have at my house. Urging you to stick with 30/50 is not a good answer. You want more pressure or you wouldn't be here asking questions. Adding a couple of big pressure tanks will make the 30/50 pressure even worse, as it will stay at the low end of the pressure for much longer than before. Not to mention the cost of two 119 gallon size pressure tanks? o_O

Your 44 gallon size tank is plenty and more than you need if you add a Cycle Stop Valve. The Cycle Stop Valve will give you strong constant pressure in the house, so much you won't even need soap in the shower. Lol!

I also agree with the 35-65 PSI range. But at 35 PSI you will have to run around in the shower to get wet. At 65 PSI it will be like a pressure washer. You just need to keep it close to the upper pressure limit all the time if you want good pressure, which is exactly what a CSV will do.

However, with a 1/2HP pump you are limited to how much pressure it can make.. But it should work at 40/60 and maybe even 50/70. You will just have to see if it can build that much pressure and adjust accordingly. If it will do 50/70 a CSV would be set to deliver 65 PSI constant, and then you would have the pressure you have always been dreaming of. But the big pressure tanks will make your pressure worse, and you don't want to jump from the frying pan into the fire. Lol!

You know what they say about doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results?
 

North Jersey

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The highest pressure I was seeing upstairs is 53 psi. I can find the 119 gallon tanks with replaceable bladders for an acceptable price. I'm ready to upsize the well pump, too. If the pressure floor were at least 20 psi greater, I think we would be a lot happier. I suppose if fixtures start failing due to increased pressure I can just repair and replace them as necessary. What is the usual mode of failure due to high pressure?
 

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Are you still considering two of those huge 119 gallon tanks? I thought you wanted more pressure? As I said, adding two big tanks will keep your pressure lower for longer periods of time. With an 80/100 pressure switch a 119 gallon pressure tank will hold 20 gallons of water. With 2 tanks that would mean using all 40 gallons as the pressure drops low before the pump comes on and gives you the higher pressure you want.

An 86 gallon tank would hold 15 gallons of water, but the pressure would not be dropping for nearly as long. Then with a CSV the pressure can be held at a strong constant 95 PSI for as long as the shower is on or you are using water anywhere in or around the house. That would be MUCH stronger pressure than seeing 80 to 100 over and over as you use water.

Also, any tank with a replaceable bladder is made that way on purpose. The bladder will touch the side walls of the tank, wear out quickly, and need replacing often. Most of the time the upper part of the tank has been damaged by the water that leaked through the bad bladder. Even if you can get the bad bladder out and a new one in, the rust in the tank will wear out the new bladder even quicker than the original. Tanks without replaceable bladders like the WellXTrol are best. But the only reason a tank bladder fails is from going up and down over and over as the pump is cycling on and off. Using a Cycle Stop Valve will not only give you the strong pressure you want but will keep the tank bladder from failing and it won't need to be replaced.
 

CountryBoy19

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My one experience with a replaceable bladder tank was my FILs fiberglass. By the time the bladder failed the first time (about 10 years IIRC) the bladder couldn't be purchased anymore and the whole tank had to be replaced anyway.

As far as fixtures and high pressure, depending on the style of toilet tank valve you have you may need to replace. Some designs don't close off at higher pressures. I had that problem when I increased the pressure in my house.
 

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My one experience with a replaceable bladder tank was my FILs fiberglass. By the time the bladder failed the first time (about 10 years IIRC) the bladder couldn't be purchased anymore and the whole tank had to be replaced anyway.

As far as fixtures and high pressure, depending on the style of toilet tank valve you have you may need to replace. Some designs don't close off at higher pressures. I had that problem when I increased the pressure in my house.
Thanks. I never had a good experience with a replaceable bladder. Most likely the first one only lasted 5 years or so and it took another 5 year before anyone noticed it. Most people don't notice the tank bladder is bad and the pump is short cycling until the pump is fried and they start asking why.
 

CountryBoy19

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Thanks. I never had a good experience with a replaceable bladder. Most likely the first one only lasted 5 years or so and it took another 5 year before anyone noticed it. Most people don't notice the tank bladder is bad and the pump is short cycling until the pump is fried and they start asking why.
In the case of my FIL, he's a sharp man, he noticed pretty quickly and got it replaced before the pump failed.
 

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Then he should also know that it is the pump cycling on and off that causes tank bladders to fail, and that a Cycle Stop Valve will solve that problem. Even though he noticed "quickly", the tank bladder had already failed.
 

CountryBoy19

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Then he should also know that it is the pump cycling on and off that causes tank bladders to fail, and that a Cycle Stop Valve will solve that problem. Even though he noticed "quickly", the tank bladder had already failed.
It's all a moot point now, he no longer lives at that house. That was 7 or 8 years ago.

I only mentioned this situation to reinforce that replaceable bladders sound like a good idea but they aren't.
 
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