Incandecent Buzzing

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PTN

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I had a question regarding a couple of torchiere lamps i bought at home depot which use a three way switch for a three way bulb - 50, 100 and 150. i plugged them into outlets controlled by lutron dimmers and even when they are full-on, they buzz. When you dim them, they buzz louder.

i have several other hanging fixtures controlled by these same type of dimmers and there is no noise at all. Is this a function of the lamp wiring or maybe the type of bulbs?

i don't want to use them if i keep getting the annoying buzzing.

Thanks for any advice.
 

Prashster

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Lotsa electricians around here'll give you a definitive answer.

But I believe it's mainly a function of the dimmer. Different bulbs may hum less.

I've noticed that my bulbs on "humming dimmers" tend to burn out quicker. The hum is probably symptomatic of vibrations that put the bulb under a lot of stress. Again, I defer to electricians...

If it were me, I'd ditch the dimmers. They're 'cool', but the novelty of the 5 or 6 I have in my home has long since worn off.
 

Jadnashua

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Dimmers can be made to control resistive load and reactive loads, but often aren't interchangable. Using one for the other can cause a lot of heat, harmonics (both audible and electronic). Using a dimmer to control a device that has internal dimming is risky. A 3-way incandescent is a resistive load, but basically alternate filaments. That may not be true on the torchiere which could be running off a transformer. Transformers come in various configurations and getting a dimmer, you must get the right one or risk burning it up. Low-voltage transformers come in electronic and magnetic. Using a dimmer for one when designed for the other could cause it to burn up.

Depending on how the dimmer works, and the design of the filaments, sometimes they will ring since the dimmer might be chopping the power on and off. That chopping action is almost like hitting the thing like a bell or a spring you keep tweaking. Some are better at minimizing the ringing than others.
 

Lakee911

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I've had better luck with more expensive dimmers that are rated for higher wattages. They're typically quieter.

Jason
 

Cookie

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If you can hear your light bulbs humming, your house is too quiet. You need a few more kids ;) I haven't heard my light bulbs hum in 20 some years. I developed this keen sense of selective hearing, so I hear nothing... If you give me your address I will send over my kids right away and then, your light bulbs will not be so annoying,

36_11_6.gif

I can also throw in for good measure a couple neighbor's kids and 2 relatives.





 
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Chris75

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Just so everyone knows, its a code violation to install a dimmer controlling a receptacle... if this is indeed the OP's setup...
 

Ian Gills

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"a dimmer controlling a receptacle"

I had never even thought of the possibility. This forum is such an eye-opener. I am going to dim the range.
 

PTN

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the torchiere has no transformer, so it must simply be the filaments vibrating. if i purchase a single filament 150 watt bulb and simply not use the three way switch (which i don't need anyway since i have the dimmer), do you think the buzzing will go away?

i have about 10 fitures in the house (all single filament) controlled by the same lutron dimmers and not one of them makes even the slightest sound. they are all dead quiet. This must be due to the tree way filaments.

The only question i have is if i get a single filament bulb, which setting on the lamp swith should i use or does it matter? will the bulb work in any setting or only on the third "click" setting?

i understand the potential problems with plugging in a load not intended for a dimmer but my outlet is behind a large piece of furniture so it is not accessible by anyone but me. i even plugged the other outlet opening and labled it for lamps only - i know, a little anal - but after all, it was mentioned that code does not allow dimmers for receptacles because it is potentially dangerous.

the other thing is that i have a wireless plug-in dimmer in another room because that room has not overhead lighting nor a switched outlet. i have the same kind of lamp plugged in over there and that dimmer (heath zenith) makes the lamp buzz even louder than in the switched outlet scenario.

Due to this other situation, i really think it has to be the extra filaments in the tree way bulbs that are the culprits.
 

Cass

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If you can hear your light bulbs humming, your house is too quiet. You need a few more kids ;) I haven't heard my light bulbs hum in 20 some years. I developed this keen sense of selective hearing, so I hear nothing... If you give me your address I will send over my kids right away and then, your light bulbs will not be so annoying,

36_11_6.gif

I can also throw in for good measure a couple neighbor's kids and 2 relatives.







I have 4 kids and never have a dimmer humming problem...so Cookie...I guess you are correct!!!
 

Jimbo

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1) I think you are probably correct that the double filament on the 3-way may be susceptible to humming.
2) If you were going to dim a 3-way, you would have to leave the lamp switch set on HIGH. Otherwise, you do not get the full range of light.

3) It is just plain wrong to contol a receptacle with a dimmer. You think you will always remember, but sooner or later SOMEONE will plug the wrong thing in there. Since this is an out-and-out code violation, your fire insurance may refuse to pay any claim. Do want this hassel???
 

Frenchie

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PTN - why not just get a plug-in dimmer for that receptacle?

I'm quite fond of these, myself, have them on every lamp in my place:
 
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Bald Eagle

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Cass, you got 4 kids? Cookie how many do you have?
I have 6 kids and can't hear myself think, let alone the lightbulbs humming.
 

Chris75

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i understand the potential problems with plugging in a load not intended for a dimmer but my outlet is behind a large piece of furniture so it is not accessible by anyone but me. i even plugged the other outlet opening and labled it for lamps only - i know, a little anal - but after all, it was mentioned that code does not allow dimmers for receptacles because it is potentially dangerous.
.


Unbelievable... As long as your convinced it must be okay... and its not a code violation because it is potentially dangerous...

Here are two products for dimming lamps...

http://www.aboutlightingcontrols.org/products/newprods/lutron/lutron-20050303.shtml
 
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PTN

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i never said it wasn't a code violation. i understand that it is.

At this point i would just like to figure out why i'm getting the buzzing. i want to learn the reasons behind this buzzing sound and that is why i asked the question to begin with.

Thanks for the pic of the product you listed but i don't want to use that style of dimmer.
 

hj

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switch

If you use a single filament bulb in a three way socket, the switch will act like an ordinary on/off one. It is just that at one point the bulb will be controlled because its contact is the only one energized, and then two clicks later, after an off cycle, ( because the second unused terminal is active), it will be controlled by the same contact and the lower voltage terminal will be active but not used. The next click will turn the entire socket off and then the cycle will repeat. Therefore the bulb will light every second time with an off cycle between them.
 

Mikey

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Why the buzz? Ask Lutron.

I have a lot of recessed lighting (most are 65W floods) controlled by Lutron dimmers and have never heard any buzzing, for whatever that's worth. Maybe I'm lucky -- here's what Mr Lutron has to say (at http://www.lutron.com/service/FAQ.asp) (edited slightly):

WHY DOES MY LAMP BUZZ ?
This is caused by the lamp filament vibrating as the dimmer rapidly switches the lamp on and off. Lamp buzz is generally noisiest at the mid-range (50%) dimming level. If this happens, we suggest using rough service lamps (sometimes called garage door opener lamps), physically smaller lamps, or lower wattage lamps.

The most effective way of reducing lamp buzz is to install a lamp debuzzing coil (LDC) in the lighting circuit. When an LDC is wired in series with the dimmer, it slows down the inrush of current during the rapid switching cycle of the dimmer. As the current inrush is slowed down, the lamp filament vibration and lamp buzz are reduced.
Lutron has two LDC models available to help reduce lamp buzz. The type of LDC required depends on the total wattage of the dimmer's lighting load. Listed below are the model numbers and their respective capacities:

Model#: LDC-10-TCP LDC-16-TCP
Rated Capacity: 600-1200W 1201-1920W

Note: For loads under 600W, consult the toll-free Lutron Hotline: 800-523-9466

LDCs may be wired in series with the dimmer on its line side or load side. Each dimmer requires its own LDC. LDCs themselves make an audible buzz, and therefore, should be mounted in an area where the noise will not be objectionable (e.g. an electrical closet, a basement, or above a drop ceiling.) The LDCs are UL listed and thermally protected.

See also: Application Note #3 at http://www.lutron.com/applicationnotes/360476.pdf, which goes into more detail. One interesting fix mentioned there is "use a specification grade dimmer". I guess that means more expensive.

So, the good news is the cause is known, and there is a fix. The bad news is the cheap LDC costs $150, and the LDC itself might buzz (but it can be hidden away somewhere). Earplugs might be cheaper...

If you're an experimenter, you might just try making your own LDC -- it sounds like it's just a big inductance. If you can find an old transformer that runs at a 150-200W load level, just wire the primary in series with your lamp.
 
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PEW

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There are also replacement bulb sockets which have a self contained dimmer built in. I have several of them and none buzz.

On the similar subject, I have two low voltage xenon under counter light strings. Same make bulbs, same make and model dimmers, but different brand (same rating) transformers. One set of bulbs are completely quiet, the others will buzz, to different degrees, regardless of level settings.
 

PTN

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thanks for the links. i'll read some more on this.

my bulb is 150 watts ( larger filament) so i can understand how it might be louder than others. i will try a regular 100 watt bulb just to see if a lower wattage bulb still buzzes the same.

if i can't use the 150 watt bulb, then i'll have to rethink the lighting in this room because i really need more wattage.
 
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