If replacing your house's sewer pipe, what is the best material?

[Cali_John]

Recently I read that Europe is using High-Density Polyethylene (HDPE) pipe for plumbing pipe - especially the pipe connecting the house to the line in the street.

What about PVC (Polyvinyl Chloride) pipe?

Which one should I choose and what are the tradeoffs? Recently I learned my house has orangeburg pipe connecting the house line to the street which is apparently a terrible choice.

 

[Reach4]

In your area, ABS may be most popular. I think it is always foam core. PVC comes in foam core too, but it also comes in stronger pressure-rated pipe. Schedule 40 a thicker pipe. Around here, it would usually be PVC for sewers, but sometimes it would be the thinner PVC.

In the 4 inch size, the solvent weld ASTIM D2729 sewer pipe would be be: OD 4.215 ID 4.056
Schedule 40: OD 4.500 ID 4.026
Some would consider pressure rated PVC for sewers to the street is overkill, but I think the extra material cost is not much compared to the labor.

Sometimes bigger and smaller are used for houses.

I am not a plumber.

Chatting with the local sewer department may give you some good info based on local knowledge.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Mr tee]

Use either ABS or PVC pipe and fittings, whichever is popular in your area. Either will be a giant improvement over orangeberg .

 

[Dj2]

In my city it's ABS (black pipe) for sewer and COPPER for fresh water.
9 plumbers out 10 would tell you the same thing.

 

[Jeff H Young]

I've always used sch40 ABS but haven't done a sewer in years I have done some long runs of SDR PVC thin wall stuff its cheap. PVC becoming more popular in southern ca dont know why or why not but abs has been king for all my 35years ok maybe only 33 years. Orangeburg I didn't know what it was when I encountered it it seemed to be cardboard or paper impregnated with tar it was junk but it don't take much to last a 1 year warranty.
Its funny though people back east don't use abs swear what horrible junk it is but never seen it. Either way SCH 40 will be more rugged to damage on backfill and roots . I would consider PVC or ABS.
You never mentioned water Ive had good luck with PVC , copper , PEX probebly OK too .

 

[Reach4]

Its funny though people back east dont use abs swear what horrible junk it is but never seen it.

Are you referring to me as one of them? AFAIK, ABS DWV pipe is comparable to PVC foam core. Isn't that correct?

 

[Jeff H Young]

Are you referring to me as one of them? AFAIK, ABS DWV pipe is comparable to PVC foam core. Isn't that correct?

No not refering to you at all or most from the east ha ha just some other people in regions where abs is not as common or not at all seen. PVC was that way here barely seen but its changed some and I dont know why I know I like abs for drains. MOST the people that Ive heard complain about abs come from areas that dont use it very much any way. Western states were big on abs but its changing. But I will say not much slamming on ABS comes from CA

 

[Reach4]

John, if you get the line from the street swapped out, consider having the trench dug by somebody who separates out the topsoil from the subsoil, if your subsoil is not so good for growing grass. Some will even separate out the grass and replace back like sod.

The premium quality diggers will compact the returned soil with sledgehammers! (maybe there is a good power for that.) I have a friend who's sewer guys did that.

Usually you will get a hump of dirt, and will be told that will flatten out with time. That is true, but if it is compacted, subsidence will be minimal.

You may be surprised that throwing the old pipe back into the trench is common, rather than hauling it away. Negotiating for hauling may be worthwhile. My logic is that throwing a hollow old pipe in the trench will eventually cause subsidence as water washes water in. If your area is dry, that may never happen.

Will you get new pipe all of the way to the sewer? Sewers are usually closer to the side of the street that does not have the fire hydrants.

 

[Jeff H Young]

Usualy we only go to the street or sidewalk and tie on to the lateral. put a test wye in and run!

 

[Cali_John]

Thank you @Reach4 and all for the interesting info:

...consider having the trench dug by somebody who separates out the topsoil from the subsoil, if your subsoil is not so good for growing grass.

I hadn't even considered that, thanks! I plan on replacing the lawn at some point with a rock garden to minimize water usage and maintenance, so hopefully this won't matter.

You may be surprised that throwing the old pipe back into the trench is common, rather than hauling it away. Negotiating for hauling may be worthwhile. My logic is that throwing a hollow old pipe in the trench will eventually cause subsidence as water washes water in. If your area is dry, that may never happen.

Will you get new pipe all of the way to the sewer? Sewers are usually closer to the side of the street that does not have the fire hydrants.

Thank you! I hadn't even thought about asking to have it hauled away as I assumed the contractor(s) would do that! I'm definitely going to ask all the bidders for the work about hauling and soil compaction.

There's a "short clay pipe" that connects the main orangeburg sewer house line to the city sewer line. So right now everyone has been proposing to do a new plastic pipe (ABS, HDPE) to replace the house line all the way to the "short clay pipe".

 

[Sylvan]

When replacing a main sewer out to the street I use extra heavy cast iron same as running a storm or sanitary line in a parking lot

Reason being it has a high crushing strength and the CI we do remove is over 100 years old so why not stick with a proven winner

 

[TheOverThinker]

To summarize the options are:

• ABS (only foam core available these days)
• PVC foam core schedule 40
• PVC solid schedule 80
• Cast Iron
• HDPE
• Orangeburg & Clay (obsolete)

The foam core punctures pretty easy, and I would avoid it.

HDPE is mostly used on commercial jobs
https://plasticpipe.org/municipal_pipe/mid-sewer-force-main.html
But you can get it for residential as Endot PE 4710 Green Sewer Pipe.

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In some cases you can get a sewer done "trenchless". Orangeburg pipes in particular can be replaced by digging a pit at each end, and pulling a new pipe through, bursting the old one.

Either way, consider having a tracer wire put in with the new pipe, so it can be found and avoided later. EndoTrace is one such product https://www.endot.com/products/endotrace

You want to get rid of all the clay, especially the "short clay pipe".

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PVC is unfortunately toxic at all stages of manufacturing and use:
http://www.chej.org/pvcfactsheets/The_Poison_Plastic.html
"PVC the poison plastic".

 

[Jeff H Young]

Generaly the city sewer runs clay and a clay lateral from the lateral on, it can be any number of differant products. When Overthinker says to especialy change "short clay pipe" might not realize you pretty much have to stop at the short clay pipe unless your going out in the street which requires an engineering A lic and other requirements . most plumbing contractors stop at street.
Dont know if I would classify Clay obsoleete as its still in use but not prefered.

 

[Reach4]

Also PVC solid schedule 40. It is readily available in 3 and 4 inch here.

[URL]https://www.homedepot.com/p/4-in-x-10-ft-220-PSI-PVC-Sch-40-DWV-Plain-End-Pipe-531103/100156409[/URL]
https://www.homedepot.com/p/JM-eagl...hedule-40-DWV-Plain-End-Pipe-531095/100161921
both in stock in Colma, CA. They are dual rated, and solid.

 

[wwhitney]

Around here almost all the private sewer lateral replacements are trenchless HDPE. Semiflexible lengths are heat welded into a single piece and pulled through the existing pipe via a breaker head. You just need a pit at each end, one for the tugger and one for feeding in the new pipe at the opposite end.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[Jadnashua]

One thing to consider although the ground temperature changes season to season, and not all that much on a day to day basis, all of the plastic pipes will expand and contract MUCH more than say a cast iron line. This can put some radical stresses on the pipes if they aren't installed with that in mind. Yes, CI has a thermal coefficient of expansion, too, but it's a LOT smaller than most of the plastics out there.

In the row of condos I live in, owners added condensing furnaces and did not install acid neutralizers. The in-unit drains are PVC, which can handle that well, but the main line between units that also exits the row of buildings is cast iron. The CI is starting to need replacement from the acid running down the lines. In the process, we're looking at if we could do this in PVC (preferred for costs) versus CI, but in the longest straight run, with inlets from units along the way, I calculated that the length could change 3" from winter/summer and as people are doing loads of laundry or taking showers...that would literally shear off some of the connections and cause the pipe to warp, potentially creating a dip, too, that could cause a blockage. My recommendation is to add acid neutralizers, and keep the CI run the same...we might go with hubless, as it's easier to find people with that skill to install than hubs and lead, but who knows...this will become an issue for us in the next year or so that will no longer be able to be ignored.

SO, just another thing to keep in mind when selecting a material and getting it installed so it should last without issues.

 

[wwhitney]

in the longest straight run, with inlets from units along the way, I calculated that the length could change 3" from winter/summer and as people are doing loads of laundry or taking showers...that would literally shear off some of the connections and cause the pipe to warp, potentially creating a dip, too, that could cause a blockage.

But a sewer line would typically be continuously restrained along its length by friction with the soil. In which case the pipe will expand/contract thermally at the same rate as the soil. At high or low temperature, there will be some induced stress in the pipe from the constraint, at a level I understand is well within the capacity of the pipe to handle.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[Sylvan]

"we might go with hubless, as it's easier to find people with that skill to install than hubs and lead, but who knows.."

If your concerned about the "skill level" and this is actually better then lead caulking for several reasons


1- Faster. 2- much less chance of root infiltration 3- stronger joint 4- environmentally safer 4- Lead is 1" deep this is much deeper less change of ever pulling out or corroding

 

[Jeff H Young]

"we might go with hubless, as it's easier to find people with that skill to install than hubs and lead, but who knows.."

If your concerned about the "skill level" and this is actually better then lead caulking for several reasons


1- Faster. 2- much less chance of root infiltration 3- stronger joint 4- environmentally safer 4- Lead is 1" deep this is much deeper less change of ever pulling out or corroding

Available in XH as well !!

 

[Jadnashua]

Friction alone won't prevent a pipe from expanding or contracting. The thermal coefficient between soil and metal are also different. Yes, the pipe being contained underground will be at essentially the same temperature, but that won't prevent the line from changing length (diameter normally isn't an issue since the relative distance isn't that much).