Identifying and replacing broken cylindrical American Standard Champion flush valve,.

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huttarl

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I have a broken flush valve that looks like this (the whitish cylinder in the center of the tank):
IMG_1349.JPG

The guy at Lowe's had never seen the like. Searching online, I see a lot of info about Kohler-style flush valves, but this is not quite that, and the instructions for removing a Kohler-style flush valve (turn it a quarter turn counterclockwise) or taking it apart don't work for this one.

The toilet tank says American Standard, 2005. So maybe that's who made the flush valve, but I can't find a flush valve like it on AS's web site or any other.

The problem I'm having with it is this: When the flush arm goes up, it pulls the chain you see in the above photo, which pulls up on a central column, which pulls up the whole white cylinder. When the outer cylinder lifts up, the valve is open. However the connection between the inner column and the outer cylinder is broken. It's all plastic, and there's a little black plastic part way down in there that you can see is broken:
IMG_1352.JPG

You can lift the outer column manually, and the toilet flushes just fine; but you have to have the tank lid off for that.

If I could pull the flush valve out of the tank, maybe I could replace it, or identify the part. But as it is, the inner column seems to be attached to something (the propellor thing down in the hole?) and so none of it will come all the way out. I suppose I could just try to break it off!

Anyway, my questions are:
  • Any idea how to identify this flush valve?
  • Can I replace it with a "universal" flush valve, like from a Korky kit? I have one that says it's for a 2" drain hole, but the drain hole in our toilet tank looks more like 3" diameter. However the flush valve in the kit has a big cone-shaped rubber thing at the bottom that looks like it might well be big enough. I'd just rather not take the whole tank off and leave our kids without any way of flushing, only to discover that I can't fix it with the kit I bought.
Thank you for any help you can offer!
 

WJcandee

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The guy at Lowe's had never seen the like.

Because they are unqualified morons. You came to the right place.

Terry answered the question about what you have, which is obsolete and was discontinued by AS because it's garbage and they had to completely redesign and recall it. The WILL send you that new flush valve, which you can have the joy of installing yourself.

For me, that "funnelator" valve is also a joke and a pain, and ultimately will be a bit of a challenge to replace the seal on when the time comes.

One option you have, as you suggest, is the 3" Korky kit 5030BP. It's a nice Korky flush valve with an oversized overflow riser and a standard flapper. Korky says expressly that it can be used to replace the flush valve on the Champion.

This link describes the kit and the toilets on which it fits, as well as contains a nice installation video with the Korky woman from Wisconsin.

http://www.korky.com/products/flush...ts/large-3-4-flush-valve-tank-bowl-gasket-kit

They don't have it at Lowe's or HD, but Google 5030BP and you will find that that big online superstore has it at a decent price.
 
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Gary Swart

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Not related to the original question, but a recent experience with Slow's comes to mind. I was needing to drill some holes in 1/4" steel and couldn't find my center punch. Stopped a Slow's and after searching the shelves to no avail, I asked the young smock man if they had center punches. He looked in his book and showed me some nail punches, but when I said they were not what I wanted, he started looking like a deer caught in headlights. So I asked him if he knew what a center punch was. The true then came out. No, he didn't have a clue.(No, Slow's doesn't have such high tech things as a center punch)
 

huttarl

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Thank you, Terry and wjcandee!

I am now on hold with AS's customer support line. It will be nice if they'll send us a replacement flush valve. Wonder how long it will take.

But even if AS doesn't send me a replacement, I can now be confident in getting the 3" Korky kit and not waste time with the kit I have.

 

huttarl

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Terry, AS didn't offer to send me a replacement. After 15 minutes on hold, the very nice customer service representative helped me find the model number for my toilet: 4260. But she said that this model has had no recalls (I thought that was what you meant about sending out a new one, but you didn't say recall...) She said they had a redesign in 2007 "to make it more maintainable" or something. She gave me a part number for the replacement: 3174.105-0070A.

She was very insistent that no other part will work: it must be an AS replacement part! I asked her why they make toilets that don't work with standard parts. "I don't know, I just work here."

It looks like the Korky kit is about the same price, but I can get it cheaper because Walmart has it (no shipping). Lifetime non-transferrable warranty (AS) vs. 5 years (Korky). Hmm.
I think I would rather give my business to a company like Korky that helps customers have a choice in who they buy from, than to AS that tries to lock customers in.

champion-4-flush-valve-replacement-01.jpg
 
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WJcandee

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The nitwit at AS probably didn't realize that it's the VALVE they had the service campaign on, not the TOILET per se. Or maybe they just aren't honoring it anymore. But IIRC, all Champion owners got a letter from AS about replacing the valve with the "Funnelator" for free (except for your own labor, of course). IIRC, it was to prevent or settle a class action.

In any event, if you do get the stupid American Standard "Funnelator" replacement flush valve, keep this thread in mind when you need to change the seal -- there are some tricks that can be helpful: https://terrylove.com/forums/index....-of-am-standard-champion-toilets.18981/page-2

And if anyone wants, for kicks, to see how AS knowingly sold defective Champions, one need only read the factual summary by the judge in the Champion class action case in New Jersey (where the plaintiff sadly couldn't prove a class, but I believe that others did). I read what they were doing internally and what they were saying externally and decided that I would never do business with them again. http://cases.justia.com/federal/dis.../2:2007cv03991/205852/137/0.pdf?ts=1411561145

Also read footnote 6, where the judge nudges AS about their ridiculous argument that the plaintiff's case should be dismissed for "spoliation of evidence" because the plaintiff tossed the crappy, defective flush towers after AS sent him replacements.

I was also interested to know that the REAL reason it's a "Champion 4" is not the advertised-as-4" flush valve, but rather because it's the FOURTH ITERATION of the Champion, which they called Champion 1, 2, and 3 internally while they were trying to fix the thing, without letting customers know which version they were getting, according to the judge.
 

huttarl

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I noticed that the flush valve replacement part has a lifetime non-transferrable warranty, and it was a previous homeowner who installed that toilet. So it's likely the service campaign wouldn't apply to us anyway.

Looking at our local stores, Ace Hardware has this variation of the Korky 5030, the 5030BP: http://www.acehardware.com/product/index.jsp?productId=28976396 Looks practically identical to me.

This Fluidmaster "complete 3" flush valve and flapper repair kit" also seems like it would also work:
http://www.lowes.com/pd_359952-320-540AKRP5_2z8vkZ2z8vlZ2z8vm__?productId=3432608
For some reason it's much cheaper than the Korky and the AS flush valves... I wonder if it would do the trick.
 

WJcandee

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I'm personally not a huge fan of that Fluidmaster flapper, but Fluidmaster stuff generally does what it says it's going to do. One reason for the difference in price maybe that the Fluidmaster is usually hecho en Mexico whereas the Korky is made in Wisconsin. However, that's a pretty big differential which probably can't be explained by just that. The price online is also nothing particularly great. I didn't look at Walmart online. They used to have it.
 
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Terry

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Terry, AS didn't offer to send me a replacement. After 15 minutes on hold, the very nice customer service representative helped me find the model number for my toilet: 4260. But she said that this model has had no recalls (I thought that was what you meant about sending out a new one, but you didn't say recall...) She said they had a redesign in 2007 "to make it more maintainable" or something. She gave me a part number for the replacement: 3174.105-0070A.

American Standard has changed hands a few times.
At one point it was owned by Bain Capital, (Mitt Romney) and then he sold it to a Japanese company.
They used to give you the replacement flush valve. But then your's is getting a bit old in the tooth anyway. The original was a ten year warranty when it first came out.

Fluidmaster makes a replacement.
http://www.fluidmaster.com/our-prod...omplete-3-flush-valve-flapper-repair-kit.html

Korky makes a replacement
http://www.korky.com/flush-valves-kits/large-3-flush-valve-tank-bowl-gasket-kit

champion-4-flush-valve-1.jpg


The new Champion 4 flush valve.

champion-4-flush-valve-seal-instructions.jpg


Changing the seal.
 
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tom in pvb

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Recalled Item and possible in a class action case! from 62.50 to free with phone call thank you...

1st time called American Standard they would send me parts for about 62.50 said could find cheaper on line and gave part # I did found for about 42 total.
Then I wised up and read your pages . Now free

Read this is a recall and in a class action case.!!!!!
I called toll free Number and when I got through I mentioned my 4281 toilet purchased in 2005 has leaky flush valve. then mentioned recall and saw info re class action law suit. She asked my information and said would send me replacements due in 5 days and said no charge. That included special tools that are need to install correctly.
I thanked her and thought I would write and advise readers with this problem.
happy new year to you all suggest this be linked to others having problems with this product.
 

Paul Milenkovic

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Recalled Item and possible in a class action case! from 62.50 to free with phone call thank you...

1st time called American Standard they would send me parts for about 62.50 said could find cheaper on line and gave part # I did found for about 42 total.
Then I wised up and read your pages . Now free

Read this is a recall and in a class action case.!!!!!
I called toll free Number and when I got through I mentioned my 4281 toilet purchased in 2005 has leaky flush valve. then mentioned recall and saw info re class action law suit. She asked my information and said would send me replacements due in 5 days and said no charge. That included special tools that are need to install correctly.
I thanked her and thought I would write and advise readers with this problem.
happy new year to you all suggest this be linked to others having problems with this product.


I called American Standard today to tell them I had a Champion 4260 with the white tower flush valve "that was only made for a year", where the catch was no longer working. I mentioned the Class Action linked on this Web site.

Cindy from American Standard told me "there was no Class Action, and if there was, we would have won it" and that "we were giving out a replacement valve, but that was eight or nine years ago" as a consumer good will gesture, "but we are not giving it out now." Cindy was rather certain about this, suggesting that whether or not what she said was "correct" according to a standard of justice or fair play, she was certainly instructed on how to reply to this request.

Any other advice on how to ask? Your post was a year-and-half ago whereas Cindy was certain that they stopped supplying goodwill replacement valve much longer. Should I try another clerk? Write the company?
 

MasterBevo

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I have a broken flush valve that looks like this (the whitish cylinder in the center of the tank):
View attachment 33930

The guy at Lowe's had never seen the like. Searching online, I see a lot of info about Kohler-style flush valves, but this is not quite that, and the instructions for removing a Kohler-style flush valve (turn it a quarter turn counterclockwise) or taking it apart don't work for this one.

The toilet tank says American Standard, 2005. So maybe that's who made the flush valve, but I can't find a flush valve like it on AS's web site or any other.

The problem I'm having with it is this: When the flush arm goes up, it pulls the chain you see in the above photo, which pulls up on a central column, which pulls up the whole white cylinder. When the outer cylinder lifts up, the valve is open. However the connection between the inner column and the outer cylinder is broken. It's all plastic, and there's a little black plastic part way down in there that you can see is broken:
View attachment 33931

You can lift the outer column manually, and the toilet flushes just fine; but you have to have the tank lid off for that.

If I could pull the flush valve out of the tank, maybe I could replace it, or identify the part. But as it is, the inner column seems to be attached to something (the propellor thing down in the hole?) and so none of it will come all the way out. I suppose I could just try to break it off!

Anyway, my questions are:
  • Any idea how to identify this flush valve?
  • Can I replace it with a "universal" flush valve, like from a Korky kit? I have one that says it's for a 2" drain hole, but the drain hole in our toilet tank looks more like 3" diameter. However the flush valve in the kit has a big cone-shaped rubber thing at the bottom that looks like it might well be big enough. I'd just rather not take the whole tank off and leave our kids without any way of flushing, only to discover that I can't fix it with the kit I bought.
Thank you for any help you can offer!


I have this exact same FLush Valve... mine still flushes, but the seal at the bottom leaks. Is there any way to replace JUST this seal? (The orange rubber ring at the bottom)

Did you replace with the Korky? Did that work for you?
 
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