I have a new well & some plans. Please critique & offer pump suggestions

Discussion in 'Pumps and Tanks Well Forum & Blog. Water is life.' started by 1984, Jul 29, 2021.

  1. 1984

    1984 New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2021
    Location:
    Oceania
    Hi everyone,

    I have a new well on my property. The diameter of the pipe is 5 inches and the water is at a depth of 60 feet. The water level in the pipe appears static. (We live in a valley and my neighbors' wells tap into the same aquifer. They've used 35 gpm pumps for at least two decades now, apparently pumping as much water as they need for irrigation.)

    I bought a used 10-gpm pump from a relative to irrigate my lawn using two tractor sprinklers, but the pump failed within a week. I'm not sure why.

    My plan is to buy a very cheap 30-gpm Hallmark pump and use that to develop my well. One reviewer suggested replacing the ground wire to improve the Hallmark's lifespan. Is that something I should consider? The other problem is that the Hallmark is a 2-wire pump and I have a 3-wire setup, and I'm not sure how to proceed.

    If you don't recommend the Hallmark, is there another cheap ~30-gpm "burner" pump I can buy somewhere?

    Eventually I'm going to replace the Hallmark with a Grundfos, but I'm not sure which of their models I should purchase. Please offer suggestions, preferably in the 25-30 gpm range.

    My well provides water for my house and for irrigation of my backyard garden/orchard. Should I consider a CSV? If so, where can I buy one?

    Thank you for the help.
     
  2. valveman

    valveman Cary Austin Staff Member

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2006
    Occupation:
    Pump Controls Technician
    Location:
    Lubbock, Texas
    The 1HP, 33 GPM, Hallmark can make a max head of 207'. With a water level of 60' that pump can only build a max of 63 PSI. That is too close to use a 40/60 pressure switch, but 30/50 would work. Just use two of the three wires going down the well to supply the 2 wire pump. And get the 230V not the 115V model. Size of the ground wire is fine. Pumps didn't even have ground wires for a hundred years. Some engineer decided it was needed only a few years ago. Lol!

    I don't know what happened to the used pump, but if the water in the motor was low from being stored, that is about how long it would last. Most pump are destroyed from the pump cycling on and off too much, not small ground wires or anything else. So, if you were using a pressure tank and pressure switch, the used pump could have been destroyed from cycling on and off.

    With a 10 GPM pump you have to run 10 GPM all the time to keep the pump from cycling. With a 30 GPM pump you will need to use 30 GPM every time you turn on irrigation, or it will cycle the pump to death. Using a Cycle Stop Valve turns the pump into a variable flow pump that will deliver anything from 1 to 30 GPM without letting the pump cycle. If you have a pressure tank, you need the CSV to keep the pump from cycling. If you do not have a pressure tank and plan on manually turning on and off the pump when needed, just make sure to never let the pump come on without a faucet being open, or you will burn up the pump.
     
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  4. 1984

    1984 New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2021
    Location:
    Oceania
    Thank you for that helpful response.

    If I understand you correctly, a pump that will be out of use for a while (extended storage) should be stored in a container of water? This means the water that cools the motor evaporates out of the pump? How quickly does this process occur?

    I do have a pressure tank. It's an 86-gal Water Worker with a 30/50 pressure switch. When selecting the CSV, do I get the 50 PSI version?

    Also, do you have a recommendation for a 25-30 GPM Grundfos? (Or perhaps another pump of comparable quality.) Thanks.
     
  5. Bannerman

    Bannerman Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2014
    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    If you are planning to operate the system at 30/50 psi, then the CSV will be normally calibrated for 40 psi. If you instead obtain a pump that can build higher pressure, then a 40/60 pressure switch maybe utilized to allow the CSV to deliver 50 psi or, 60 psi while using a 50/70 pressure switch.

    As the CSV will regulate the downstream pressure, the pressure before the CSV must be higher. Once no further water is needed, the CSV will allow 1 GPM to flow to the pressure tank to increase the system pressure until the pressure switch cut out pressure is met to shutoff the pump.

    Your 86 gallon pressure tank will hold approx 22 gallons water. If you choose to continue utilizing it with a CSV, then 22 gallons water will need to be used before the pump becomes activated to cause the CSV to supply constant pressure to your faucets. With the CSV preventing cycling, a 4.5 gallon pressure tank can replace your large tank, and will cause the pump to become activated after only 1 gallon flow.
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2021
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  6. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2013
    Location:
    IL
    A "30 gpm 207 ft head" Hallmark pump is not comparable to a 30 gpm regular pump. It is more like a 17 gpm pump with a 160 ft head. It still might be useful for what you have in mind.
     
  7. 1984

    1984 New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2021
    Location:
    Oceania
    Reach4, if your estimate of the Hallmark's "true" capability is correct, then it would not meet the 50 PSI needed for a 30/50 pressure switch. So what happens to the pump if it never meets the necessary pressure to shut off, it just runs continuously?
     
  8. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2013
    Location:
    IL
    Yes, BUT 50 psi is 115.36 ft of water. That plus your 60 ft of head is about 175 ft. So the pump would shutoff. It's just that the flow rate would be lower than you might have expected while the pressure was say 40 psi. That said, 7 gpm is enough pump for most houses, and 10 is enough for a big house usually, so the pump would probably be fine for you if your expectations are not inflated to think you would get 30 gpm.
     
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  9. Bannerman

    Bannerman Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2014
    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    While most pumps are designed to operate 24/7, when there is insufficient flow and the pump cannot build sufficient pressure to satisfy the pressure switch to cause it to shutoff, it is called 'deadhead''.

    Without sufficient flow across the motor, the motor can overheat, which can cause water in the well to become hot enough to boil and can result in plastic well casing to deform, sometimes preventing the pump from being removed.

    As Valveman stated, the pump you are considering will build to as much as 63 psi, which should ensure sufficient pressure margin to reliably satisfy a 30/50 pressure switch. With only 3 psi margin above a 40/60 psi switch, will not ensure the pump will aways shut off, particularly when/if the water level in the well is lower than assumed.
     
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  10. 1984

    1984 New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2021
    Location:
    Oceania
    What if, say, my well is located 100 feet or more from my house? According to this chart of friction pressure loss, 100 feet of 1" pipe at 25 GPM leads to a loss of 33 feet of head pressure. So now does this pump produce enough pressure for the pressure switch to activate?
     
  11. VAWellDriller

    VAWellDriller Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2012
    Occupation:
    Mud rotary well driller, pump installer
    Location:
    Richmond, VA
    This is a little tricky because the head conditions will be constantly changing as pressure across system varies and water level in well changes. The answer is yes...the pump should reach cut off. The conditions should all reach a relative equilibrium at any given flow rate....the pump will always be able to build the same amount of head...the flow realized at the tank will vary though. As the pump builds to switch cut off, the flow is lower and therefore the friction loss through piping is less.......if you raised switch high enough, the flow would be so low there would be no friction loss through the piping.
     
  12. valveman

    valveman Cary Austin Staff Member

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2006
    Occupation:
    Pump Controls Technician
    Location:
    Lubbock, Texas
    1" pipe will only have 33' of head friction loss when you are using 30 GPM. Check the friction loss at 1 GPM. There is basically zero friction loss at 1 GPM. You may not be able to pump 30 GPM down that small pipe and still get 50 PSI at the other end. But when you stop using water and the CSV starts filling the tank at 1 GPM, there is no friction loss and the pump can easily reach 50 PSI to be shut off.
     
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