Hydronic Pipes Ticking/Popping In Really Tight Holes

[samboski]

I get the classic popping/ticking noises as my copper hydronic heat pipes heat/cool and have some areas that the pipes are going through very tight holes in the floor joists. I have full access to everything right now as we're remodeling the basement and that ceiling is torn down. I've tried adding some plastic shims but the space is so tight that it actually made the noises worse. It seems to me the only solution is to enlarge these holes but I'm open to other suggestions. I also have no idea how I'd get the holes any bigger without having to cut and remove the pipe which I am capable of doing but would really be a pain. Thanks for any help!

 

[Jadziedzic]

Try using an oscillating multi-tool to cut a square-shaped hole in the joist around the pipe; if you have reasonable access to the area this shouldn't be all that difficult. Plan beforehand to make the hole large enough to fit in one of the plastic pipe supports with "ears" (looks like Mickey), or maybe get fancy and make a hexagonal- or octagonal-shaped hole which will look a bit neater. Don't get carried away and make the hole too large!

 

[Sponsor]

 

[samboski]

What a great tip! I bought an oscillating tool and have been able to turn those super tight round holes into reasonably sized square holes. Thanks so much for the advice - I've been able to fix my issue and now have a really cool tool that I'm sure I'll be able to use in the future.

 

[Terry]

Just for anyone looking at theses pictures, there is supposed to be 2" of wood left on the top and bottom of the floor joists.
Good job on getting rid of the creaking from expansion and contraction though.

 

[samboski]

Good point Terry! Unfortunately, the holes drilled almost 50 years ago made that an impossibility in my case. Any suggestions for action I can take to mitigate this issue?

 

[Bert Lee]

Good point Terry! Unfortunately, the holes drilled almost 50 years ago made that an impossibility in my case. Any suggestions for action I can take to mitigate this issue?

If that area is to be finished I'd think at a minimum I'd install those steel 'nail plates' as a safeguard against an errant screw or nail when finishing

https://www.lowes.com/pd/STEEL-CITY-2-1-2-in-x-1-1-2-in-Gauge-Nail-Plates-100-Pack/3422476

 

[Jadziedzic]

What is the size (height) of the floor joist? (Thickness would be interesting as well.) Fifty-year-old joists might be wider than current material sizes.

You're allowed to notch up to 1/6th the height of the joist as long as you're not in the middle third of the joist span where the bending forces are greatest. If your pipes are running in that middle third you will probably need to reinforce the joists (by sistering another joist or adding a flitch plate), which ultimately means moving the pipes. A consultation with a structural engineer is appropriate in this case.

 

[Dana]

What is the size (height) of the floor joist? (Thickness would be interesting as well.) Fifty-year-old joists might be wider than current material sizes.

You're allowed to notch up to 1/6th the height of the joist as long as you're not in the middle third of the joist span where the bending forces are greatest. If your pipes are running in that middle third you will probably need to reinforce the joists (by sistering another joist or adding a flitch plate), which ultimately means moving the pipes. A consultation with a structural engineer is appropriate in this case.

The pipes in the pictures appear to be less than 5' from the exterior walls, and the joists aren't fully notched either. I would't sweat this one too much:

This one I might measure the span and remaining joist depth above the hole and compare it to standard construction tables:

A steel flitch plate would be extreme overkill here, but half inch CDX glued (with construction adhesive) & screwed on both sides of the joist in the weakened area can do wonders for restoring/increasing load capacity & stiffness on notched or compromised joists.