HTC Phoenix Light Duty gas WH

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Reach4

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Everybody seems to like it. Despite it being expensive, I was wondering if I should consider it if/when my conventional gas unit fails. Efficient. Can draw combustion air from outside. No anode needed. I see now that I can remove it from consideration.

http://www.htproducts.com/literature/lp-441.pdf is the installation guide. Page 10 has these requirements:

  • Water pH between 6.5 and 8.5
  • pH levels below 6.5 can cause an increase in the rate of corrosion.
    • pH of 8.5 or higher can potentially cause lime scale build-up
    • Maintain water pH between 6.5 and 8.5. Check with litmus paper or have it chemically analyzed by a local water treatment company.
    • If the pH is not between 6.5 and 8.5, consult a local water treatment company for solutions.
  • Hardness less than 12 grains (200 mg/L) (Residential Use - water temperatures below 140oF)
  • Hardness less than 7 grains (120 mg/L) (Commercial Use - water temperatures of 140oF and greater)
    • Hardness levels above the required amounts can lead to lime scale build-up throughout the system. Water below 5 grains/ gallon (85 mg/L) may be over softened.
    • Consult local water treatment companies for unusually hard water areas (above the required amounts) or for other treatment solutions if water is being over softened (below 5 grains/gallon [85 mg/L]).
  • Chloride concentration less than 100 ppm (mg/L)
    • Do not fill appliance or operate with water containing chlorides in excess of 100 ppm (mg/L).
    • Using chlorinated fresh water should be acceptable as levels are typically less than 5 ppm (mg/L).
    • Do not connect the appliance to directly heat swimming pool or spa water.
  • Total Dissolved Solids (TDS) less than 500 ppm (mg/L)
    • Total dissolved solids are minerals, salts, metals, and charged particles that are dissolved in water.
    • The greater the amounts of TDS present, the higher the corrosion potential due to increased conductivity in the water.
    • If using softened water to fill the appliance, it is still possible to have high TDS. This water can be corrosive. Consult local water treatment companies for other treatment solutions to reduce this effect.
My water does not meet the TDS the specification by a bit, so this unit is out for me. I don't understand why they spec that, but they do spec that.

I don't understand the "water is being over softened " thing. What do you suppose that is about?

Note that the Westinghouse Premium water heaters are the same. They even have the same rules in their installation manual: http://www.westinghousewaterheating.com/literature/whl-001.pdf
 
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Dj2

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"I don't understand the "water is being over softened " thing. What do you suppose that is about?"

I would think that since water softening is basically removing Ca and Mg by adding salts, over softening could mean elevated sodium levels in your water, which could be dangerous to some folks.
I'm not a chemist...
 

ditttohead

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Seriously funny stuff. Hardness to be maintained below 7 gpg, but over 5 gpg...

This is simply a warranty killer. Most equipment will have specs that are unachievable in order to negate the vast majority of warranty claims.
 

Dana

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It'll still outlast almost any glass lined standard tank by 2x- 'nuff sed.

Or maybe not quite 'nuff:

Don't sweat the small stuff- that thing was designed as a commercial water heater anticipating several times the amount of water that a typical family of four would be using (which is also why it has 3x the burner output at high fire that a standard 50 gallon water heater does.) The chemistry issue are largely a function of just how much water moves through the thing in a decade of use (the warranty period), and unless yours is a total hot-water pig type family, it won't be anywhere near commercial water heater volumes.
 

Lange Fischer

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Anybody have any idea if there are contractors in Ontario (Toronto) who can supply and install this unit at a reasonable price?

I spoke to several installers and very few know the unit. One said typical markup on tanks is 2x which surprised me. Anyway, found a guy who would do it but quoted me $4,500 for the tank and $750 for the install.

Would it be worth driving down to Buffalo and buying one of the Westinghouse units from HD for $2,000 (2,600 cad)? Will I be able to find someone to install the tank up here if they're not supplying the tank? Would I lose warranty and does that matter? I'd love this unit but the premium is way too much. A decent high input model (Giant) can be supplied + installed for $1,600.

Any help is appreciated.
 
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hj

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you will not lose the warranty, but YOU will be responsible for it. You would have to remove the heater and transport it to the "exchange site", and process the paperwork and pay any fees.
 

Dana

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Anybody have any idea if there are contractors in Ontario (Toronto) who can supply and install this unit at a reasonable price?

I spoke to several installers and very few know the unit. One said typical markup on tanks is 2x which surprised me. Anyway, found a guy who would do it but quoted me $4,500 for the tank and $750 for the install.

Would it be worth driving down to Buffalo and buying one of the Westinghouse units from HD for $2,000 (2,600 cad)? Will I be able to find someone to install the tank up here if they're not supplying the tank? Would I lose warranty and does that matter? I'd love this unit but the premium is way too much. A decent high input model (Giant) can be supplied + installed for $1,600.

Any help is appreciated.

I'm not sure if there are any local codes or other issues that would prevent this (probably not), but CDN$4500 for just the water heater seems ridiculously overpriced, unless they're charging you plumber's rates for THEM to drive to Buffalo to pick one up.
 

Lange Fischer

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Thanks for the info and sorry to hijack this thread.

Unfortunately I don't think it makes sense for me to drive to Buffalo to pick up the unit. Just wish I could find reasonable pricing in Toronto. If anyone has a lead, I would be appreciative!

Lange
 
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