How to test wire from pressure switch to wire under ground

Discussion in 'Pumps and Tanks Well Forum & Blog. Water is life.' started by trotter13, Mar 7, 2019.

  1. trotter13

    trotter13 Member

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    Here we go. 20190313_184723.jpg 20190313_184634.jpg 20190313_184604.jpg
     
  2. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

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    You have a tank tee, which is good. That is not what I expected to see.

    Hook a hose to that faucet on your tank tee. Close the valve to the house.
    1. Turn off the pump.
    2. Open the valve on the tank tee. Optionally play the hose into a bucket if you are interested in what comes out. Let the pressure go to zero. Check that the pressure gauge says zero.
    3. Close the valve on the tank tee.
    4. Turn on the pump, and let it run until the pressure switch clicks off. Note how long that takes.
    5. Repeat steps 1...4 several times, at least until you see no more sediment coming out of the hose.
    6. Turn the water to the house back on.
    The numbered steps are for cleaning out the pressure tank.

    Actually, you could run that hose outside for hours to rinse out the well. Don't run all of that water to your septic. Ideally the flow will be big enough that the pump does not cycle. If the well runs dry, turn off the pump, and resume later.

    Turn off the heat to the water heater. After the cleaning above, run the hose to the WH drain. With the water pressurized, run a bunch of water out of the drain valve, through the hose, to your yard. This is to clean accumulated sediment on the bottom of the WH. This is "power flushing"

    There is another procedure where you can drain the WH, and open a hot water valve. Turn the incoming water on and off, several times, to try to knock some extra sediment loose. Drain between spurts.
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2019
  3. trotter13

    trotter13 Member

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    So I take it that you think the sediment is messing with the p switch? My horses are frozen, so no hose in bucket.
     
  4. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

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    That hose will be unfrozen enough really soon. It does not have to start out empty of ice. The tiniest trickle will thaw that hose the rest of the way.

    No, I was not thinking about sediment in the pressure switch. I am not sure about that symptom quite yet, but was thinking about the sediment report. Sediment coming up after well work is pretty normal.
     
  5. trotter13

    trotter13 Member

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    I t took 1 minute. When it hit 30 it took off to 50 in 1-2seconds and cut off. Then when I turned the house back on it dropped to 48.not much sediment that I could see but a lot of air at the end.
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2019
  6. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

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    60 seconds. That is good.. not that the air is good, but that may be a temporary symptom.
     
  7. trotter13

    trotter13 Member

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    Maybe the air was traped in the tank?
     
  8. valveman

    valveman Cary Austin Staff Member

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    Still don't understand. It filled the tank to 50 in 1-2 seconds and shut off?
     
  9. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

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    Oooh. I missed the 1-2 seconds part.

    trotter13, what took a minute, and what took 1-2 seconds???

    While we are at it, what is the air pressure in the pressure tank when the water pressure is zero?
     
  10. trotter13

    trotter13 Member

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    Dont know air pressure in the tank I couldn't find my pressure gauge. But something's up my wife flushed the toilet and pressure switch kicked on and off about 7 times while the toilet was filling. Clicked on and off about every 10 -15 seconds.
     
  11. valveman

    valveman Cary Austin Staff Member

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    Bad pressure tank!
     
  12. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

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    Maybe that was the fabled "New York minute". ;)
    Yep.... trotter13 could work around this temporarily, until he gets that taken care of, by adding air. That would have some tricky aspects, and he probably does not have a compressor.
     
  13. trotter13

    trotter13 Member

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    But it worked before the pump failed. Presure holding steady when I shut the toilet down.The toilet is segmented up so its taking 1-1/2 hour to fill, have to buy new guts or clean it out. And yes I have a compressor.
     
  14. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

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    Now you need a pressure gauge or two. Your tire store may be a good place to get that. Let's wait until you take a pressure reading. Normal with a submersible pump is to set the air precharge 2 psi below the cut-on pressure. Precharge is always checked or set with the water pressure zero.

    If you find near zero air precharge, you could try to precharge it. During that time I would keep the valve to the house off, and open the drain valve to a hose.

    Is your compessor one of those "250 psi" compressor with no cfm or scfm rating? If so, it can take a long time (hour?) to charge up a pressure tank. If you have a hole in your diaphragm/bladder, you will not be able to raise the pressure with even a 4 cfm compressor. Then you will go into workaround mode.

    Workaround mode: I have not tried this out. This is how I think I would do it, but I expect there is a better way. Here is my idea: If your tank has a failed diaphragm, you will isolate the pressure to the house. Drain the tank, possibly with help of the compressor. Then close the drain valve. Pump the air pressure to 4 psi below the cut-in pressure. Turn on the pump. Note how long it takes to get to cut-off. Then open the valve to the house and use water.

    With time, the air will absorb into the water. It may give you enough time to get and install the replacement tank. If not, add air.

    If you turn off the pump without cutting the house off, you can get a blast of air through a faucet in the house. Same thing would happen in a power failure.

    I am not a pro, and I am not speaking from experience. Click Inbox.
     
  15. trotter13

    trotter13 Member

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    My compressor is 125 psi. Small one no tank. Big one in the barn, can't move it. Man I hope it's not the tank been having a bad two weeks. My tractor wont start, my well craped out and my rooster got attacked. Had to tube feed him and give him injections. My barns' corner post split from the weather, wind and ice.

    Getting back to the well. Could it be possible that when I heated the poly I heated it to much and weakened it. Could the pump blow a little hole in the poly from the pressure? Causing this problem.
     
  16. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

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    When you have a compressor labeled in psi vs cfm, it is more likely to be aimed at inflating a car tire than some higher volume job.

    Hole in the pipe would not cause short-cycling.

    Maybe you can use the add-air method for a longer while. You could keep that up indefinitely.
     
  17. trotter13

    trotter13 Member

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    Yeah, the brand I have now is the wellx trol. If my diaphragm were bad wouldn't the presure drop and not hold steady? It's been at 50 now for a 1/2 hour. How big a compressor would I need? 150 psi?
     
  18. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

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    1. You could maybe measure the current pressure with your small pump. With no tank, I expect you could use it as a pressure gauge before you even plug it up.

    2. 32 gallons is 4.28 cubic ft. A compressor rated at 1 cuft @ 40 psi could raise the precharge from nothingup to 38 psi in a few minutes. An electric tire compressor could take a lot longer.

    In answer to your question, a "150 psi" compressor would probably be better than a "250 psi" compressor. I did not mis-type that. Both are probably worse than a 1/4 cfm@40 psi compressor.

    You want one rated for cfm at 40 psi or 90 psi, or in SCFM (the way the better stuff is usually rated). I would want at least 1 cfm@ 40 psi if I were to buy one.

    Compressor tank size is not important for putting air into a well pressure tank. No tank needed. A tank is good for powering tools, however.
     
  19. trotter13

    trotter13 Member

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    Ok, couldn't do anything last night. Did it at 430 this morning. Presure in tank with gauge at zero was 5 psi! Filled it to 28 pressure switch is 30-50. Low p turns on at 32 off at 52. Have adjust the big turn screw. Now to see how long it holds.
    How do I monitor the tank? Ran kitchen faucet for about 5 minutes then pump kicked in at 32. That was gauge showing 42 because I had the outside spicket turn on and me bleeding the system by the tank. So to wrap it up, when I ran the kitchen faucet with everything shut off outside and pipe bleeding done. The pressure in the tank was at 42. it took about 5 minutes for the pump to kick in at 32. Then stopped at 52.
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2019
  20. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

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    Seems like really good news so far. Let's see how it goes. I have good hope. I am not sure of the effect of having the precharge at 5 psi was having. You have already seen a big increase in the amount of water that the pressure tank delivers before the pump has to turn on again. That is good.

    Well-X-Trol tanks have "multi-dome" construction, and I have not yet thought through what the expected behavior was at 5 psi precharge.
    https://terrylove.com/forums/index....ell-x-trol-and-champion-pressure-tanks.65692/

    How did the air get so low? I don't know. Do put a sealed valve cap over the valve if you don't have one in place already. The caps on cars and truck tires have seals too.

    With a submersible pump it is usual to have the air precharge 2 psi below the cut in pressure. With a jet pump there is a 4 or 5 psi difference, because the jet pumps are slower to deliver pressure. On your typical pressure switch, turning the nut on the big screw 3.5 turns CW raises both the cut-in and cut-out pressures by about 10 psi.

    To compare the calibration on your water pressure and air pressure gauges, you can read the air pressure when the pump is off and the water pressure is above say 34. At that time the air pressure and water pressure are almost the same. So if there were say a 3 psi difference observed, you could just make note of that and adjust readings in the future with those gauges.
     
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