How to pour a lead plumbing joint.

[JohnfrWhipple]

Great post and information men. In today's renovations business it seems to be to much about the quick buck and get in and get out. I love watching master tradesmen tackle a project and pull out the old tools and show me something I have never seen before. Makes me want to own more tools.

I'm renovating my home and want to have an exposed 3" cast iron stack and would love to see a joint or two with the lead pour. Are these old pipes still made with the option of doing the lead connections?

I have not really looked into it before and only once have we done a lead repair over the years.

Great pictures.

Thanks again.

 

[tilelayher]

I live outside Philly, lead joints are still done all the time in the city. They can't use PVC or copper down the city. People will come in and steal the pipes.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[hj]

Harry Griesback tried to tell me that was how they poured upside down joints, but was stumped when I asked him, "How do you get the air out of the joint so the lead fills the void up to the oakum. Or do you just try to compress the air when you calk the joint?" It makes more sense to pour the joint upright and then invert the fitting, which is how they WERE done.

 

[CollinLeon]

Harry Griesback tried to tell me that was how they poured upside down joints, but was stumped when I asked him, "How do you get the air out of the joint so the lead fills the void up to the oakum. Or do you just try to compress the air when you calk the joint?" It makes more sense to pour the joint upright and then invert the fitting, which is how they WERE done.

OK, first of all, I'm not a plumber and I stumbled across this site while looking for some information concerning brazing of copper fuel lines, but I read this thread and I have a bit of an idea from at least a physics perspective on this...

First of all, the joint between the two pieces of pipe is not perfectly airtight, right? Otherwise, you would not be having to seal them, right? As such, the air that is in the gap between the lower pipe and the upper one would exit that way and go up the pipe.

Come to think of it, even if it was a perfect seal on it at the contact point between the upper pipe and the lower pipe, the density of the lead would result in it being able to probably go a bit up there. Kind of like when you take an inverted glass and put it in a sink, pool, or whatever. The air is trapped in there, but the water level rises (i.e. the air is compressed) as you push the glass further below the surface of the water. If you put the glass at about 33 ft below the surface, the water level will rise to the halfway point in the glass (assuming a cylindrical / straight walled glass).

 

[Hairyhosebib]

Pouring a 4" lead joint was still part of the plumbing test in Indiana in the late 90's and may still be part of the practical exam. A 12 " piece with hub and a 12" inch piece was needed for the test along with a 5 LB chunk of lead, oakum, irons, etc. You could only work with it in the horizontal position!. Once you stood it on end , you were kicked out by the procter. It's a really dirty thing for a procter to do but I was told that they would say to someone taking the test that it would be easier to work with on end. Once on end they would kick you out of the test and you would have to pay to take the test again. Also, it takes 4 pounds of lead to do a 4 inch joint so they get to keep the extra pound of lead.
Once the joint is poured for your project, they plug both ends of the pipe and air it up to about 20 to 40 pounds of air and put it in a barrel of water to see if it leaks. If it leaks you failed the test and you have to pay to take the test again. If it does not leak they bust the joint open and grade your lead ring. I think it is to be one inch thick. I took a saw and marked my iron. I did pass the plumbing test but I sure was a nervous wreck while taking it! There is a type of pipe called DURIRON, it is a acid waste pipe used in research buildings It is a type of drain pipe that uses lead joints. It has been a long time since I have worked with it. I think the sealing rope is something other than your typical oakum.

 

[NHmaster3015]

I know I am bumping, I am looking to buy a running rope. I have been pouring alot of lead joints lately, on this site whats the difference between the 2 ropes that they are selling? http://www.plumbsource.net/product/4576/Lead-Joint-Runner.html

May be the one is asbestos and the other not. Mine are so old and oil soaked I have no clue what they were originally. Whatever you get though, thrwo it in a bucket of dark cutting oil for a month before you use it.

Pouring upside down. air is not a problem. You will never get the rope sealed tight enough to cause an air bubble.

 

[hj]

quote: There is these new joint runners that I seen at the local union hall they are a rubber clamp type, I tried to search the net for a picture but I fail.

NEW? I still have the 3" one I used in Chicago 40 years ago.

 

[hj]

The difference between the two running ropes is the length. One is up to 4" pipe and the other goes to 6". If you do not need a 6" one the extra length becomes a nuisance.

 

[hj]

IF you have never poured a joint upside down, or even tried it, then do NOT philosophize about how it can be done. Even IF the air could pass through the PACKED oakum, it could NOT do it before the lead congealed, and thus the lead would NOT fill the entire void. And if it did not do so, then it could NOT perform its function of keeping the oakum compacted to maintain the seal. The only salvation for the joint would be that the few times they were used it was ALWAYS in the vent system.