How to plumb outdoor spigot for both softened and unsoftened water

[Kevin121]

We are in the process of building a house and are starting to plan for installing a water softener. I have an outdoor water spigot that is connected to the house's PEX manifold system. The water flow will come in from the pressure tank (well source), then to a whole house sediment filter, and then have a Tee that on one branch will go to the water softener and then the PEX manifold, and the other branch would be used to tie into a PEX line output off the manifold to the water spigot.

So I am imaging two PEX lines (one from the manifold (conditioned water), and the other branched off the main (unconditioned water)) joined together with some type of valve (or other device) that will allow me to switch between the spigot getting conditioned water from the water softener, and unconditioned water that bypasses the water softener. Is there such a valve that would work for this situation? Ideally I don't want to have the ability to have both valves turned in the ON position at the same time, I would like to be able to only turn one or the other on at a time (no mixing).

I'm hoping someone can share an example of what I should be using in this scenario, or if you have a better idea of accomplishing this. Thanks in advance.

 

[Reach4]

1. use a "3-way" valve to select which supply feeds the spigot.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Tectite-1-2-in-Brass-Push-To-Connect-3-Way-Ball-Valve-FSBBV312/305758792
https://apolloflow.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/is-FSBBV312-334.pdf

2. use a separate sillcock for hard and soft water.

3. Similarly, use a "hot cold sillcock".
https://www.supplyhouse.com/sh/cont...ot cold sillcock?searchText=hot+cold+sillcock

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Kevin121]

Yes I was thinking of something like that, but will only function as a diverter and not mix ("L" port I believe is the term).

 

[wwhitney]

The ball valves I am familiar with that have 3 ports A, B, C and a T-shaped cavity in the ball can be setup either as (a) A-B vs B-C or as (b) A-B vs A-B-C. There are stops so the handle can only turn 90 degrees, meaning there's only two choice at any time, but the handle can be taken off and reversed so that you can do either (a) or (b).

Not sure if the Apollo valve above is the same.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[Reach4]

Yes I was thinking of something like that, but will only function as a diverter and not mix ("L" port I believe is the term).

Why did you say that? Are you saying that you want to provide a mix of hard and soft, and you think that valve won't do that?

Ideally I don't want to have the ability to have both valves turned in the ON position at the same time, I would like to be able to only turn one or the other on at a time (no mixing).

That said you don't want to mix.

So what are you really saying? That you want a snap action, where you cannot put the lever between the two stops and cause a momentary mix? Or that somebody else may be doing the operation and might put the lever half way? Are you saying that you want the valve to be off on both ports if teased half way?

 

[Kevin121]

Ideally I'm looking for a valve that will only allow flow from one of the inlets at a time, either from the PEX manifold source (water softener) or directly from the main (bypassed water softener). I really do not want something that will allow mixing of the two sources if there is such a valve that does that. Just trying to make it idiot-proof if I easily can, but not a huge deal if I have to use one that can allow flow from both inputs.

 

[Reach4]

Ideally I'm looking for a valve that will only allow flow from one of the inlets at a time, either from the PEX manifold source (water softener) or directly from the main (bypassed water softener). I really do not want something that will allow mixing of the two sources if there is such a valve that does that. Just trying to make it idiot-proof if I easily can, but not a huge deal if I have to use one that can allow flow from both inputs.

There probably is, but I expect that to be priced significantly higher.

If you were worried about hard sneaking into soft piping, you could put a spring-loaded check valve in line with the incoming soft water path.

 

[wwhitney]

I don't think I described the T-ball valves I'm familiar with very well, so let me try again:

The body has three openings, call them A-B-C on consecutive sides going CW. The ball has three openings in it as well. If you take the handle off and turn the ball manually via the shaft, you can access 4 different functions: starting with the state A-B-C being connected, and turning CW, you then get B-C connected; then A-C connected; then A-B connected.

But the body has two stops for the handle, and the handle can be put on in two different ways. So when the handle is on, you can only access 2 of the 4 states, and which 2 depends on the handle orientation. I.e. 1 handle orientation will allow A-B-C and B-C (say), while the other handle location will allow A-C and A-B. [And I might have the division wrong, depending on the stop locations, it might be B-C plus A-C vs A-B plus A-B-C. But functionally it's the same.]

So if you don't want to allow A-B-C, just make sure the handle is on the other way.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[Kevin121]

Thanks Wayne - that explanation is very helpful and functionally that would work perfect in this situation.

 

[Reach4]

The ball valves I am familiar with that have 3 ports A, B, C and a T-shaped cavity in the ball can be setup either as (a) A-B vs B-C or as (b) A-B vs A-B-C. There are stops so the handle can only turn 90 degrees, meaning there's only two choice at any time, but the handle can be taken off and reversed so that you can do either (a) or (b).

Not sure if the Apollo valve above is the same.

"(b) A-B vs A-B-C." seems weird. I don't think that would be called a 3-way valve.

Thanks Wayne - that explanation is very helpful and functionally that would work perfect in this situation.

That's what you were talking about? Weirder still. I thought you were concerned that the handle could be moved 45 degrees and get a mix.

 

[Kevin121]

That's[/I] what you were talking about? Weirder still. I thought you were concerned that the handle could be moved 45 degrees and get a mix.

You're confusing me, I thought I was clear in what I was describing but maybe not. I thought what Wayne said would prevent the mix function - "So if you don't want to allow A-B-C, just make sure the handle is on the other way." Isn't A-B-C referring to water flow from 2 of the 3 letter's into the 3rd one?

 

[Tuttles Revenge]

Why not install a hot and cold hose spigot with one handle controlling soft and the other controlling hard water. So long as you only turn one on at a time you won't mix.. and if you do its only at the spout.

 

[Kevin121]

I would rather not run a 2nd Pex line to a spigot, and just control it near the manifold in the basement. Most times it will be in hard (unconditioned) operation.

 

[wwhitney]

You're confusing me, I thought I was clear in what I was describing but maybe not. I thought what Wayne said would prevent the mix function - "So if you don't want to allow A-B-C, just make sure the handle is on the other way." Isn't A-B-C referring to water flow from 2 of the 3 letter's into the 3rd one?

My post was about the behavior when the ball was in one of the two terminal positions, with the handle against one of the stops. But Reach4 is considering what happens if you turn the handle half-way between the two stops.

That might allow all three ports to be connected (more likely, I think), or it might cause none of them to connected. Depends on the size of the holes in the ball and in the valve body.

So the question is do you require no cross-connect at any point of the handle's rotation (assuming you don't take the handle), or just at the two terminal positions?

Cheers, Wayne

 

[Reach4]

My post was about the behavior when the ball was in one of the two terminal positions, with the handle against one of the stops. But Reach4 is considering what happens if you turn the handle half-way between the two stops.

I had interpreted that that was Kevin's concern.

Then post #8 and #9 happened.

 

[Jeff H Young]

not idiot proof but put 2 ball valves with a T between them one side hard water other side soft and run the t branch to hose bib. i guess from your softener location or some place where the hard and soft lines are close by

 

[Kevin121]

Thanks Jeff - that would work also.