How to fix water main supply line

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AdrianeS

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Be extremely careful when using a curb key so as not to break the valve underground in the closed position or worse cause it to start leaking
What is a curb key? I've never heard of that.

My proposed fix would be to have the city shut-off the water, use an autocutter to cutout the leaking coupling, install a Sharkbite ball valve, and I think that's all there is to it?
 

AdrianeS

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I would want to more about that fitting, or pair of fittings, that your green arrow points to.

Once I knew that, I would look above what you show in your photo, and be looking to replace galvanized where practical.
I edited my original post to include more pictures.
 

AdrianeS

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As a licensed plumber, I'll reiterate what the two above state about the price, it's not that high relative to the time/material involved.

That aside, it's possible the wet is condensate, exposed water pipes have the "coke can" effect, when running cold water inside they collect condensate outside.

Reach has mentioned the only way you might fix it, and that comes with a caveat - the valve is very old, if you crack or strip the nut while tightening you'll quickly have a flooded basement.

If that doesn't work -
The plumber is going to have to schedule a shut-down with the local water dept, and as Sylvan points out, you need a full port ball valve - the current valve should never have been used. Also, there is no way to seal it externally, especially not while the main is pressurized.

I'd also mention that the copper water main should've been sleeved to protect it from direct contact with concrete, acid in the concrete can eat the copper, that copper inside the mortar could be in rough shape, be careful not to shake or vibrate the pipe if you attempt a fix.
Thanks for your reply! $750 might be a fair price but it's still far more than I can afford right now, especially if I can do it myself.

My proposed fix would be to have the city shut-off the water, use an autocutter to cutout the leaking coupling, install a Sharkbite ball valve, and I think that's all there is to it?

Is there anything I can do to protect the copper from the concrete at this point?
 

Jeff H Young

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What's a curb key? Never heard that term before.
curb key just a name for a long wrench that reaches deep to a valve under ground should be a box or cover out by street typicaly perhaps an alley easement differant citys states etc do things a little differant . here in so cal we have a shutoff and meter at the street and because of warm weather ours is just a foot max underground
 

AdrianeS

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curb key just a name for a long wrench that reaches deep to a valve under ground should be a box or cover out by street typicaly perhaps an alley easement differant citys states etc do things a little differant . here in so cal we have a shutoff and meter at the street and because of warm weather ours is just a foot max underground
I have no idea what type of shutoff I have outside. If it came to that, I'd definitely call in a plumber!
 

JohnCT

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Have you asked your city's water department? That coupling and valve are before the meter, maybe they'll change it for you.

John
 

Tuttles Revenge

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I wouldn't recommend a sharkbite fitting in that particular location for one reason. The curve of the copper might make that section out of round and the sharkbite might not make a full seal or might not grip properly to the copper if its slightly ovalized.

If you're planning on DIY here, the first thing you need to do is to verify that you have the ability to safely shut off/on the valve at the street. Call the city/water purveyor and ask them for advice and or help on how to do that. Most will be very willing to let you know if there is any danger in touching that stop valve or that its just a quarter turn valve and super easy. Once you have control of the water supply and verify that the water is off you can work on that fitting.

The flare fitting that your arrow points to should be fairly simple to take apart and look at. The fitting is comprised of 2 parts that essentially sandwich the Flared end of the copper pipe between the Nut and the Flare fitting. They usually are a really secure way of making a mechanical copper joint. Taking it apart and putting it back together requires 2 tools that most people have. 2 adjustable crescent wrenches or 2 pairs of adjustable pliers or a combination of both should work. Once apart you should be able to visually or tactilly feel for anything that is causing a leak.. The mating surfaces should all be smooth.. Cleaning up both sides of the flare with some Brillo pad might make visual inspection easier.

Here is a link to a copper industry video on how flared fittings are made which should illustrate how to take it apart and how to put it back together. https://www.copper.org/applications/plumbing/cth/cth_8flrdjts.html
 

Jeff H Young

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I have no idea what type of shutoff I have outside. If it came to that, I'd definitely call in a plumber!
Id post a picture of it but dont really know how but you asked what a curb stop and a key the picture is worth 1000 words and I did just google it images popped up. but in your case I think you mentioned water company will shut it off I shut them off myself here but if there is a problem I wouldnt hesitate to call water company . JohnCT had good idea some providers might take care of it at no charge. My area never has meters at the house they are out at street but your method is common in the east or perhaps other cold areas.
I figured there was a meter that didnt show but see your new pics good luck Let us know how it comes out whichever way and a picture too. anymore questions feel free pretty helpful bunch here.
 

DirtyJerz

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Looking at the new pictures I don’t think there’s another shutoff on the property since this is before the meter. Would indeed need to ask the utility to shut off the water somewhere upstream. I’m surprised this valve was not replaced when the meter was installed.

In our house we don’t have any on-property shut offs beyond inside valves, one before and one after the meter like in this picture.
 

Sylvan

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AdrianeS

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Have you asked your city's water department? That coupling and valve are before the meter, maybe they'll change it for you.

John
Thanks for the idea! I just checked on their website and I'm responsible for everthing on my property. unfortunately.
 
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AdrianeS

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I wouldn't recommend a sharkbite fitting in that particular location for one reason. The curve of the copper might make that section out of round and the sharkbite might not make a full seal or might not grip properly to the copper if its slightly ovalized.

If you're planning on DIY here, the first thing you need to do is to verify that you have the ability to safely shut off/on the valve at the street. Call the city/water purveyor and ask them for advice and or help on how to do that. Most will be very willing to let you know if there is any danger in touching that stop valve or that its just a quarter turn valve and super easy. Once you have control of the water supply and verify that the water is off you can work on that fitting.

The flare fitting that your arrow points to should be fairly simple to take apart and look at. The fitting is comprised of 2 parts that essentially sandwich the Flared end of the copper pipe between the Nut and the Flare fitting. They usually are a really secure way of making a mechanical copper joint. Taking it apart and putting it back together requires 2 tools that most people have. 2 adjustable crescent wrenches or 2 pairs of adjustable pliers or a combination of both should work. Once apart you should be able to visually or tactilly feel for anything that is causing a leak.. The mating surfaces should all be smooth.. Cleaning up both sides of the flare with some Brillo pad might make visual inspection easier.

Here is a link to a copper industry video on how flared fittings are made which should illustrate how to take it apart and how to put it back together. https://www.copper.org/applications/plumbing/cth/cth_8flrdjts.html
Thanks for your reply! That's really helpful. I'm glad to know the nuts are threaded on and not soldered. Anyways, I had already planned on calling the water company to turn off the water before I try to take it apart.
 

AdrianeS

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Id post a picture of it but dont really know how but you asked what a curb stop and a key the picture is worth 1000 words and I did just google it images popped up. but in your case I think you mentioned water company will shut it off I shut them off myself here but if there is a problem I wouldnt hesitate to call water company . JohnCT had good idea some providers might take care of it at no charge. My area never has meters at the house they are out at street but your method is common in the east or perhaps other cold areas.
I figured there was a meter that didnt show but see your new pics good luck Let us know how it comes out whichever way and a picture too. anymore questions feel free pretty helpful bunch here.
Yes, I'm extremely grateful for the advice I've gotten here! I checked with the water department and unfortunately I'm responsible for everything on my property.
 

Jeff H Young

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Looking at the new pictures I don’t think there’s another shutoff on the property since this is before the meter. Would indeed need to ask the utility to shut off the water somewhere upstream. I’m surprised this valve was not replaced when the meter was installed.

In our house we don’t have any on-property shut offs beyond inside valves, one before and one after the meter like in this pictur

Yes, I'm extremely grateful for the advice I've gotten here! I checked with the water department and unfortunately I'm responsible for everything on my property.
Sometimes they go above and beyond but yes its very common that the line is your responceability even though the meter is on your pipe the good thing is if that leaks in that location or in your yard you dont pay for water as that portion is unmetered
 

JohnCT

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Sometimes they go above and beyond but yes its very common that the line is your responceability even though the meter is on your pipe the good thing is if that leaks in that location or in your yard you dont pay for water as that portion is unmetered

So true! You would think the water department would be concerned about unmetered water wasted.

John
 

Reach4

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Sometimes they go above and beyond but yes its very common that the line is your responceability even though the meter is on your pipe the good thing is if that leaks in that location or in your yard you dont pay for water as that portion is unmetered
Good point. They might at least tell you what that fitting in your photo is, and which way to tighten to try to stop the leak. When you talk to them, you might comment that you really like the water. It's their product.
 
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