How to correct tilted closet flange pipe

[MichiganDIWhy]

Hello all

I am renovating my bathroom and have a question on how so solve the titled problem.
Bought the house as foreclosure, toilet leaked, hired a plumber during initial renovations to fix it. No leaks since but there I have to have a plunger next to the toilet constantly. Required repeated flushes to prevent a blockage. I install same toilet in basement closet flange (had basement bathroom but i gutted it when i moved in due to a mold issue). The toilet works fine flushes great.

The flange plumber put in for repair was one of the 3 allen head bolt internal seal toilet flange. A nice sealing fix, but likely the source of my flushing problems. I don't want to make a sparkling clean bathroom and have to keep a plunger at the ready so i'm going to snake the drain get a good toilet and try and provide a smoother flange. Water is expensive where i live and I want do what i can to have a 'no plunger life' while i have the room gutted.

I contacted a plumber to take a look tomorrow but given the size of the job and how busy the trades are I don't expect to hear back, nor can i blame him. Looking for some advice on how to do this properly should i end up having to tackle myself.

Here is the lower part, fully accessible in the basement. 4 inch to 3 inch (i think).
.


This is the upper part of the pipe, with the flange on the top. (i sealed the flange with another flange because HD was out of 4 inch test caps). The internal sealing flange provides adjustment for the angle but something with the proper angle will not. The angle according to my mitre gage and my laser level is 8.5 +/- 1 degrees for 'i did this after a beer'.
There is some slight tilt in the elbow below here but it is not nearly as severe as the pseudo vertical pipe.


Other side of this flange: Based on my reading on this forum, the correct solution would have been new oakam and lead joint to new flange however i don't know if that's possible with this chip out of the cast iron. I need to come up a little higher than i believe would be able to be done with a proper joint.



I am unsure on what to do next. I came up with 2 options with my attempts at reasoning why. I would appreciate help in selecting one or adding 3, 4, 5 etc...

Option 1:

As clean as i can cut the cast iron in the middle of the rise. Install no-hub coupling to convert the 4" cast iron to 4" PVC. Use a 11.25 degree 4 inch bend and try and squeak the remaining 1-3 degrees out of the bend and the no-hub.
(Pros: less new connections to leak, no-hub might have some wiggle room
Cons: unsure if this is recommended way to join waste pipe as its creating a change of diameter in the middle of run. only 2 solvent joints to squeak angle correction out of)

Option 2:

Remove the cast iron vertical completely from the elbow including the lead + oakam joint install a 4" cast iron hub to 4" pvc female to male gasket (i don't know the right word) and insert 4 inch pvc. Install a 4 "pvc as close to vertical as i can achieve and use 2 11.25 degree 4" bends to reach my closet flange.
(Pros: More room for adjustment with 4 solvent joints, smooth entry down to elbow
Cons: The forums tell me the cast iron to pvc gasket diameters are not consistent and i may be dancing with the devil on this one)

Are either of these acceptable alternatives to putting a new lead + oakam joint into the elbow with new cast iron and another joint of the same type with a cast iron closet flange?

If i had the room to move the toilet over a bit, i would but it simply does not exist. I would be moving the south wall of my house.

Thank you all

- Jesse

 

[Cacher_Chick]

Any of your fixes will work, but the outlet hole in the bowl is always smaller than that inlet of the flange, so I don’t think the flange is causing a blockage if the bowl is being set on it properly centered.

If you really want to do some plumbing, cut off the waste arm 8” from the sanitary tee and replace just that section. Doing it that way you won’t need to worry about sizing a donut in place of the leaded joint.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[MichiganDIWhy]

If you really want to do some plumbing, cut off the waste arm 8” from the sanitary tee and replace just that section. Doing it that way you won’t need to worry about sizing a donut in place of the leaded joint.

Thanks for replying so quickly.
This would require a no-hub connection right? Is there any advantage to doing that over the 'option 1'?
Less plumbing is better than more plumbing for me given how much other work i have to do on this reno.

 

[Reach4]

Cutting near the santee gives you more freedom. For example, you could use 2 45s instead of a 90. With 2 45s, you can do angles that are less than 90 if you want... If you used new a 90, you could control the angle of that toward vertical. You could control the length of the trap arm.

It is not clear what position you want the flange in.... would that be where it is now?

Are you tilting to get around the galvanized pipe? Are you keeping your galvanized pipe? If so, a 3 inch pipe passing the galvanized pipe would give another half inch of clearance. You could use an external compression 3 inch closet flange, or you could glue outside.

Rather than a cheaper no-hub, you could choose a shielded coupler that is sized to your cast iron. A Fernco 3000-43 or Mission CP-43 could connect 4" CI (4.46 OD) , to 3" PVC. There are other choices.

 

[MichiganDIWhy]

Cutting near the santee gives you more freedom. For example, you could use 2 45s instead of a 90. With 2 45s, you can do angles that are less than 90 if you want... If you used new a 90, you could control the angle of that toward vertical. You could control the length of the trap arm.

Thanks for the explanation. That might be the right way to go if i can't make it leaving the elbow in place.

It is not clear what position you want the flange in.... would that be where it is now?

Ideally a vertical run of pipe would land exactly where the flange sits now so i have some room to adjust for the height of the installed tile.

Are you tilting to get around the galvanized pipe? Are you keeping your galvanized pipe?

Nope that can go. It's actually copper but i anticipated moving for this fix. I'm doing a pex manifold for this side of the house because the woman of the house has the laundry area on our target list and a valved manifold is going to make my life much easier for both that project and the bathroom we are doing now.

You could use an external compression 3 inch closet flange, or you could glue outside.
Rather than a cheaper no-hub, you could choose a shielded coupler that is sized to your cast iron. A Fernco 3000-43 or Mission CP-43 could connect 4" CI (4.46 OD) , to 3" PVC. There are other choices.

Okay thanks for the clarification. I assumed that no-hub was just short hand for all of those parts. But it looks like that's for Cast iron to Cast iron only and i need something that will accomodate the transition.

 

[MichiganDIWhy]

I think I'm going to attempt to solve this via a 4 inch shielded transition coupler first on the vertical stack.
Between the shielded coupler and the 11.25 deg bend, i don't think I need all that much adjustment in and get a 4 inch tube aligned positioned where i need it. If I find out i cant, I can still move down the line.

I have read some threads here suggesting that old cast iron will be 'copper sized' now and i should order the fitting accordingly. Is the OD difference large enough between types that i can measure with a tape or do i need calipers or something?

Will a sawzall be adequate to cut the cast iron pipe? Grinder?
(Edit: looks like I missed the massive picture of diablo blade... )

Thanks again for everyone's replies

 

[MichiganDIWhy]

So based on some help from Reach4, I measured my cast iron. It comes out to approximately just over 4 1/8"

I believe the Fernco 3007-44 is what i'm after for adapting this to 4" PVC.
https://www.fernco.com/dimensional-drawings/3007-44

The opening is only 4.07" but difference in diameter of 0.6-0.7 appears to match that for the PVC side (4.50" OD -> 4.44" ID of Fernco fitting).

I assume this difference in diameter is normal for getting a snug fit?

If not i can likely smooth sand the outside of the CI anyways. It's a bit rough and it might help the seal.