How many grains is too much?

[Bannerman]

The test method recommended, did not mention adding 1 scoop of activator powder. Just to confirm, you did add the powder?

The kit's instructions need to be followed precisely. The only difference for high hardness is to dilute the sample 50% with distilled water, not spring water. The diluted sample size remains the same as if it isn't diluted so then each 1 drop of reagent will signify 2 grains per gallon, not 1 gpg as when the sample is not diluted.

 

[Robert Wolfe]

Big difference. I revised post #14 to reflect your new 20-grain test.

Take a look at https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?attachments/img_fleck5600sxt_flow-png.31592/ to confirm you have the paddlewheel rather than the turbine.

Definitly paddle wheel. I'v applied new settings should I force regen? looks like the control head calculated remaining gallons to the new settings.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Reach4]

Regarding regen now or not, after applying the programming change, how many gallons of capacity does the softener say you currently have? If it says over 1300, then maybe, or wait a week and do it then, or now. If you just poke the first button momentarily, the icon will flash. That indicates it will regen at 2 am.

If it says under 1000, then I would let it go.

Also note that city water hardness changes as they change the mix of river water vs well water.

 

[Bannerman]

Not sure why 1.5 people were specified in the recommendations when your initial post stated 2 residents.

Since a fixed gallon reserve was recommended, the 90 reserve setting should be increased to 120 or maybe 150 if you have one specific day each week for laundry washing.

 

[Reach4]

Not sure why 1.5 people were specified in the recommendations when your initial post stated 2 residents.

We use average 73 gallons per day with only two people.

Since a fixed gallon reserve was recommended, the 90 reserve setting should be increased to 120 or maybe 150 if you have one specific day each week for laundry washing.

Could be. Fortunately, it is only a change of the RC number.

On the other hand, maybe some of the water meter data includes unsoftened outside use, like washing the driveway or watering plants.

If Robert expects out of town visitors or other condition that might increase the need for soft water, and the gallons remaining is under 200, he will poke the extra cycle button, causing the service icon to flash and causing a regen that night.

 

[Robert Wolfe]

Display shows 1300ish dont have the exact atm. Ill Increase the reserve setting to 150, we are pretty sporadic doing laundry around here.

 

[Robert Wolfe]

Silly question why is the brine draw setting so much higher than brine fill? Is the fill setting being used to measure the "charge" and the draw so high we are making sure we extract it all?

 

[Reach4]

Silly question why is the brine draw setting so much higher than brine fill? Is the fill setting being used to measure the "charge" and the draw so high we are making sure we extract it all?

1. We are presuming that you have a 0.5 gpm BLFC (brine line flow control), as most 5600sxt softeners do, for some reason. That makes the brine fill fairly fast for a 1.5 cuft softener.

2. The brine draw is slower. It is not the same rate for different sizes of softeners. The configuring person selects an "injector" (a calibrated venturi pump) that pumps brine out of the tank at a particular rate. That brine is fed into the resin tank. Your ideal injector would be red, and would suck about 0.25 gpm out of the brine tank during brine draw. So at first look, it would take about twice as long to remove the brine. But there is more. For one thing, there is a little more brine (water +salt) volume to remove than the water, because of the added salt. That is a small factor, and could be ignored.

3. The bigger factor is that once the brine has been sucked out, the air check valve stops the flow from the brine tank. The water continues to flow through the injector through the resin media tank, even though the brine is used up. That serves to slowly rinse the salt out of the brine tank. We would like the amount of time that this rinse occurs to be about 3 times as much as it took to draw the brine. Put another way, we want the time that water is fed from the softener intake through the injector venturi to about 25% of the total time.

4. That total time that supply water is fed through the injector venturi is your "BD" (brine draw) time. However the brine has been removed after about 15 minutes. The rest of the time we can call the "slow rinse" time. The valve did not change flow patterns during the 60 minute BD time. The difference is that in the first 25% (approximately) there was brine to suck. In the remainder of the the hour, there wsa no brine left to suck.

5. Some optional things you could do are to see what color your injector is, and to time how long after the BD cycle starts, the brine has been exhausted. If the time is a whole lot different from 15 minutes, there could be some action you might choose.

 

[Bannerman]

The Brine Fill flow rate is controlled by the BLFC button which is a flow restrictor that passes water at a specific rate. That rate X the Brine Fill setting in minutes, is the amount of water to enter the Brine Tank. Each gallon entering the tank, will dissolve 3 lbs salt.

The Brine Draw rate is controlled by the injector. The injector acts a a venturi so slow rinse water passing through the venturi will create suction on a brine port to draw all the brine from the brine tank.

Regeneration is best accomplished and most efficient when performed slowly. Although all the brine is usually transferred into the resin tank within 15 minutes of a 60 minute BD/Slow Rinse cycle, further time is required for the brine to slowly continue through the resin bed and eventually flush to drain. If the BD cycle time is inadequate, soft water flowing to fixtures after a regeneration cycle will usually taste salty.

While you may expect the Rapid Rinse cycle is to rinse the resin, the main purpose of RR is to re-compact the resin bed since the initial BackWash cycle had expanded and loosened the resin, expanding the spaces between the resin beads.

 

[Robert Wolfe]

The only sticker other then the control head label is on the drain fitting injector 1 drain flow 2.5 gpm.

 

[Reach4]

The only sticker other then the control head label is on the drain fitting injector 1 drain flow 2.5 gpm.

That's 2.5 rather than 2.4?

You don't have stickers like these? https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/is-this-a-fleck-5600sxt.65702/

 

[Robert Wolfe]

Sorry late night missed all of them this is all of what's in the control head.

 

[Reach4]

None like this?

I downloaded and tried the "scan&service" ap. I thought it might have injector info. It read the tag, but wanted Pentair partner credentials. I uninstalled.

 

[Robert Wolfe]

None like this?

I downloaded and tried the "scan&service" ap. I thought it might have injector info. It read the tag, but wanted Pentair partner credentials. I uninstalled.

Negative I'll try and scan the lable or reach out to the company I purchased from this afternoon.

 

[Reach4]

So we don't know the injector. That is probably fine. Only obsessive or extra-careful people would check the injector absent a symptom. You have no symptom that would hint that you have the wrong injector to use with a BD=60. If you wanted, you could do a regen and during the BD cycle, time how long it takes for the brine to drop down to the middle of the check valve pickup. You could pull the two silver-colored screws off of the cover below the brass drain line fittings, and look at the color. You probably have a #1 white. I would prefer a #0 red, but white is very good too. Violet is also very good, but for that you would use maybe BD=90. If I had blue, yellow, or brown, I would look to get that changed.

We know your BLFC is 0.5 gpm. That label is in your first picture in #32.

If your softener is outside, you need to protect it from UV as well as rain.

 

[Bannerman]

It appears injector 1 was written by hand above the DLFC rate.
https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?attachments/img_20190418_090351-jpg.52873/

 

[Robert Wolfe]

So we don't know the injector. That is probably fine. Only obsessive or extra-careful people would check the injector absent a symptom. You have no symptom that would hint that you have the wrong injector to use with a BD=60. If you wanted, you could do a regen and during the BD cycle, time how long it takes for the brine to drop down to the middle of the check valve pickup. You could pull the two silver-colored screws off of the cover below the brass drain line fittings, and look at the color. You probably have a #1 white. I would prefer a #0 red, but white is very good too. Violet is also very good, but for that you would use maybe BD=90. If I had blue, yellow, or brown, I would look to get that changed.

We know your BLFC is 0.5 gpm. That label is in your first picture in #32.

If your softener is outside, you need to protect it from UV as well as rain.

So we will keep the BD = 60 and BF = 7 at this point? I know it needs to be protected it's temporarily tarped off the plan is to build me a small shed around it just been super busy.

 

[Reach4]

So we will keep the BD = 60 and BF = 7 at this point? I know it needs to be protected it's temporarily tarped off the plan is to build me a small shed around it just been super busy.

That would be good. If you want to use more or less salt and get less or more-soft water, you could choose from a one of these pairs:

Alternative C and BF pairs:
BLFC = 0.5
cubic ft resin = 1.5

lb/cuft ; C= ; BF= ;
4 ; 22.8 ; 4 ;too lean for many
5 ; 27.3 ; lean, saving more salt
6 ; 30.0 ; 6 ;good softening less salt
7 ; 33.1 ; 7 ;between 6 and 8
8 ; 36.0 ; 8 ;softer with moderate salt
9 ; 38.5 ; 9 ; softer still using more salt
10 ; 40.5 ; 10 ;
11 ; 42.0 ; 11 ;
12 ; 43.1 ; 12 ;
13 ; 43.9 ; 13 ;
14 ; 44.6 ; 14 ;
15 ; 45.0 ;using lots of salt with great softening 15 ;