How do you get a plumber?

[Reach4]

I bought 6 of these https://www.acehardware.com/departm...y-vacuums/2560308?store=17429&gclid=Cj0KCQiA7

Another option would be to have a transfer pump on the truck sucking the discharge into a drum or into an outside cleanout.

How about a transfer pump sucking on the drain for the wet-dry vacuum cleaner? I have stuck a sump pump driving a hose into a wet-dry vac tub to empty the collected water to avoid carrying the tub of dirty water upstairs and out the door. The transfer pump driving a hose would be a lot more convenient. The control could be manual.

I was doing some more thinking... given a trap adapter at the wall, I could envision a line to snake through from a portable tub to the trap adapter. The snake would go thru the flex line. I was thinking maybe some 1-1/2 inch Spaflex clamped to a piece of brass 1.5 inch OD brass. Or even more robust and/or more flexible hose. The trap adapter contains the liquid, and the tub collects whatever comes back. This would be a tool for somebody who deals with this a fair amount, and where trap adapters at the wall are either the norm, or could be installed before the procedure.

 

[MrBlob]

Ridgid does make pumps that attach directly to the bottom drain port on their shop vacs:

https://www.homedepot.com/p/RIDGID-...sory-for-RIDGID-Wet-Dry-Vacs-VP2000/100496507


Although I think you can do better with one of these sink drain pumps since they are fully automatic.

One of the guys did want to install a cleanout hub into the wall on the vent stack close to the T (we cut the shared wall in the adjacent room) to make snaking with 1/2" easier. I think it makes more sense to keep the work to the kitchen though. Since my sink line was cut in the cabinet and then joined back with a flex coupling - this coupling can be used to attach all kinds of contraptions, including a portable sink as you describe. Heck, you can even remove the garbage disposer/p-trap and plumb the original sink directly to the pipe. The only downside is that initial T that you need to navigate to the floor.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Jeff H Young]

Mr Blob went back through some posts and looked at what you posted a you tube from spartan. And that reinforces my thoughts on a slab house Why be so scared to jet a kitchen? sure gotta be careful but that little machine obviously targets the indoors market. Of cource some monster machine for industrial usage might not be apropriate.

 

[PlumbNuts]

A semi-decent plumber would have an option to use an electric Jetter for indoor work that has 1,200 -1,500 PSI and 1.2 -2 GPM flow and has the common sense to have a 1/8" hose to negotiate tight bends and have a wet-dry vacuum to suck up the water that may come out of the line

I guess the reason that I DO NOT have an electric jetter for indoor work is because I am not a "semi-decent" plumber even though my main reason for not having one is because I am a REAL GOOD and highly decent Master Plumber and I normally leave that kind of stuff to the drain cleaners.

 

[MrBlob]

I guess the reason that I DO NOT have an electric jetter for indoor work is because I am not a "semi-decent" plumber even though my main reason for not having one is because I am a REAL GOOD and highly decent Master Plumber and I normally leave that kind of stuff to the drain cleaners.

Lol, there seem to be a war between the plumbers and the drain cleaners. That's why I tried one of each! There is also a war between the guys who own a jetter and the those who do not, here is 5 pages of a pissing contest (crap shooter is yet another small machine that Spartan and General copied from) https://www.ridgidforum.com/forum/mechanical-trades/drain-cleaning-discussion/43817-crap-shooter . I think a take away message is calling 4 places is not enough. As a homeowner with a problem, you have to call and interview every single man in reach until you find the one who is willing to listen and knows what you are talking about and not just "don't worry, you are just a clueless homeowner, the previous guys are idiots, we will take care of you tomorrow".

 

[Sylvan]

My minimum charge for Jetting is $750 for snaking the min is $350 for using a camera it is $350 per half hr ,Expert witness is $350 per hr with a min of 4 hrs

Jobbing is $350 plus parts and tax etc. Gas inspections $1,200 MIN boiler inspections $350

We are working 7 days a week because we do all aspects of "plumbing- heating- fire suppression and of course new construction

 

[Sylvan]

https://drainbrain.com/en/success-stories/sylvan-tieger/


Any tools that will do the job

https://www.mswmag.com/online_exclu...e_to_church_plagued_by_clogged_drain_sc_001am


Even using a Ram jet can pay for itself in ONE USE


https://www.plumbermag.com/how-to-a...ners/water_ram_hammers_clogs_away_for_plumber


Drums or sections


https://drainbrain.com/en/success-s...h-plagued-clogged-drain-woes/sylvan-tieger-2/

 

[MrBlob]

https://drainbrain.com/en/success-stories/sylvan-tieger/


Any tools that will do the job

https://www.mswmag.com/online_exclu...e_to_church_plagued_by_clogged_drain_sc_001am


Even using a Ram jet can pay for itself in ONE USE


https://www.plumbermag.com/how-to-a...ners/water_ram_hammers_clogs_away_for_plumber

I've considered clog chopper but I don't see how it is more effective than a basic bulb in a soft grease. I did try Milwaukee's version of the Ram jet https://www.zoro.com/milwaukee-m12-airsnake-drain-cleaning-air-gun-kit-2572b-21/i/G2771750/ . It was fun to use but I think the clog was too long and too far. I think it might have worked if there was a way to block the vent stack.

 

[Sylvan]

I guess the reason that I DO NOT have an electric jetter for indoor work is because I am not a "semi-decent" plumber even though my main reason for not having one is because I am a REAL GOOD and highly decent Master Plumber and I normally leave that kind of stuff to the drain cleaners.

You're bypassing a gold mine. THINK about this you are snaking an old line and the pipe is corroded now you have the opportunity to do "plumbing" by replacing the piping PLUS you can charge for the times you were snaking /water jetting

I ended up with an amazing account that hired me to install 4" gas piping The original call was for a 4" floor drain stoppage

Small jobs open the door for larger ones

 

[Jeff H Young]

Lol, there seem to be a war between the plumbers and the drain cleaners. That's why I tried one of each! There is also a war between the guys who own a jetter and the those who do not, here is 5 pages of a pissing contest (crap shooter is yet another small machine that Spartan and General copied from) https://www.ridgidforum.com/forum/mechanical-trades/drain-cleaning-discussion/43817-crap-shooter . I think a take away message is calling 4 places is not enough. As a homeowner with a problem, you have to call and interview every single man in reach until you find the one who is willing to listen and knows what you are talking about and not just "don't worry, you are just a clueless homeowner, the previous guys are idiots, we will take care of you tomorrow".

Coming from doing probebly 80 percent new construction over the years there is also a "war" between construction and service plumbing and Union and Non Union. Ive done all of it except for the drain cleaning, and for reasons stated earlier havent really got into it. Most of us dont care what work the next guy does and dont have a chip on thier shoulder.
Im not clear whether your job is complete but make a decision call more guys or DIY. no 4 wasent enough not the 4 you called you seemed to well yourself

 

[MrBlob]

Coming from doing probebly 80 percent new construction over the years there is also a "war" between construction and service plumbing and Union and Non Union. Ive done all of it except for the drain cleaning, and for reasons stated earlier havent really got into it. Most of us dont care what work the next guy does and dont have a chip on thier shoulder.
Im not clear whether your job is complete but make a decision call more guys or DIY. no 4 wasent enough not the 4 you called you seemed to well yourself

Yes, I was able to open the pipe after the two pros failed and gave up on me with basically no options for the next step. This put kitchen out of service for my large family for almost 2 weeks and was about to turn into a very expensive dig. Every guy I called promised to do it easily, but you have to pay for each try with no guarantees whatsoever. In other words, do you keep hiring guys to try or just spend that money on the dig? Besides, even though I was able to deal with it this time, I realize I'm pushing my luck, not to mention killing my back. This is a stress I would like to avoid in the future, but I have no idea how to find a guy that can actually do it.

Now that I've spent a ton of time on professional forums, this thread included, I think I understand the kind of questions I need to be asking the next time this happens. Though a part of me thinks it would be nice if I didn't have to make the research - this is the whole reason you are calling a professional. Alas, not everyone is perfect. Going to get myself a jetter.

 

[Sylvan]

Yes, I was able to open the pipe after the two pros failed and gave up on me with basically no options for the next step. This put kitchen out of service for my large family for almost 2 weeks and was about to turn into a very expensive dig. Every guy I called promised to do it easily, but you have to pay for each try with no guarantees whatsoever. In other words, do you keep hiring guys to try or just spend that money on the dig? Besides, even though I was able to deal with it this time, I realize I'm pushing my luck, not to mention killing my back. This is a stress I would like to avoid in the future, but I have no idea how to find a guy that can actually do it.

Now that I've spent a ton of time on professional forums, this thread included, I think I understand the kind of questions I need to be asking the next time this happens. Though a part of me thinks it would be nice if I didn't have to make the research - this is the whole reason you are calling a professional. Alas, not everyone is perfect. Going to get myself a jetter.

" Every guy I called promised to do it easily, but you have to pay for each try with no guarantees whatsoever. In other words, do you keep hiring guys to try or just spend that money on the dig? "


The school of Music in Manhattan had a chronic stoppage since 1962 on a roof drain. Every "roto" company was called and more than 80 drain cleaning companies and countless plumbers were there and all snaked , water jetted the roof drain from above.

I went there with one of my journeymen and he was about to snake the roof drain from above. I told him insanity is doing the same thing over and over and over and expecting different results.

I told him to chop open the wet column and see what he finds.

The original plumber installed a test tee and failed to remove the brass bushing and this meant the actual drain was reduced from 4"- to 3/4"

He replaced the tee and installed a new tee with an access panel

The school told me they spent well over $80,000 of the decades with no results.

OVER 50 YEARS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and not a single "professional" thought to open a column

 

[Sylvan]

By the way, because we offered "full service" I ended up with this account and in less than 3 years Netted over $630,000

Replacing 4" stream piping, corroded steam returns, installing 3 new bathrooms, did all their sewer and drain cleaning and repair work including fixing faucets. We also installed new fire suppression piping to bring the building up to NYCFD code

Over the decades I learned small jobs can lead to much bigger ones.

No advertising just word of mouth from a roofing contractor that recommended me

 

[Jeff H Young]

Mr Blob, We get it you got screwed and want to take it on , the whole industry . What do you do for a living lets start complaining about your profession

 

[MrBlob]

Here is how it looked form the main line BTW, if you interested in that kind of thing.

Mr Blob, We get it you got screwed and want to take it on , the whole industry . What do you do for a living lets start complaining about your profession

He-he, fair enough. I did my best to convey it, but probably failed. Sorry for that. I don't hate on the industry. In fact, I firmly believe any industry has plenty of knowledgeable, honest people who are proud of their craft and my goal is to be able to find them. Heck, I loved one of the two guys who showed up - he definitely went above and beyond. My second goal is to understand why I was given a boot. Sure, some of it had to do with the skill, but a lot more - with constant stress, liability, vanishing profit, unwillingness to take on a harder job, and an attempt to upsell an unnecessary service. This is no different from going to a mechanic for an oil change and being sold a replacement of a perfectly good part. There are amazing mechanics but most people dread taking a car for a service, don't they? If you understand the underlying motives though - it is much easier to make an informed decision.

I would love to get someone like Sylvan above - not only he convinced me of his skill, but pretty much convinced me to move into plumbing!

 

[Sylvan]

Every profession and industry and trade has some that are not that skilled or honest

Most ROTO companies pay by commission and they sell useless chemicals because of the markup and the more jobs they complete in a day the more they make

I went behind roto rooter many times as after 20 -30 minutes they would leave a hard stoppage for someone else to deal with.

There is a sewer guy who charges

https://www.4999sewer.com/ <<<<< LOOK

I was paying my top employee who is now my partner $125 PER HR and he is not even a citizen yet (Albanian)

how can someone pay a decent employee, pay insurance on trucks, pay business insurance have decent equipment?

One 3/4" cable is over $350 how can anyone recoup this for $49.99?

He has been around forever and my prices were 3 times more than his until we increased our prices when I bought my BMW 750 as someone has to cover the cost and my partner bought a Porche this year and 2 multifamily houses for added income

We charge no less than $350.00 and $750 for jetting MIN

One would think that I may be considered a rip off yet we are working 7 days a week doing plumbing and stoppages even though there is this $49.99 guy right in my backyard who advertises all over

Unfortunately, a lot of new companies are afraid to charge properly for their skill and think they have to come in so cheap they work for less money than they would receive as an employee

What made me realize to never think of a "going rate" I charge what I feel I need to charge to lead the life style I and my employees want

I just completed a 42 story building in Manhattan 600 third ave a 42 story building

(https://www.ll-holding.com/portfolio/600-third-avenue)

When the tenants were moving in most law firms I decided to ask what the going rate of lawyers are in NYC

The low was $187.00 per hr and the high was over $1,400 per hr think about it. Same building, same licenses, and yet like a doctor each one decided what they wanted to make

https://www.debevoise.com/ is a law firm that hired me asking if "$850 per hr was ok plus expenses etc" at that time I was charging $350 per hr min of 4 hours

I thought they were crazy until I found out my testimony was worth millions.

That was when I realized there is no going rate and just because someone says they are a plumber does not mean they are.

When I have a severe stoppage I will stop and let the managing agent know I will be charging for 2 people $700 per hr no guarantee as it is impossible to know what someone threw down the sewer

I did a nursing home in 1982 Time and material as the 2-floor drains were totally blocked with grouting it took us over 16 HOURS working straight through but it was still cheaper then hacking up the quarry tile floor BUT they did back charge the tile guy

 

[Sylvan]

Mr |Blob this is what pisses me off

I went through a 5 year apprenticeship (10,000 hours) and 744 hours of classroom studies and had to work in the trade for TEN YEARS before being eligible to take the 4 part masters exams and must take an 8 hour class every 2 years to renew my licenses plus upgrading my OSHA and other training of codes NFPA, PLBG, ASME, NBBI, and expert witness updates

I had no student loans and as a class Journeymen, I only made $8.75 per hr in 1974

Now we have these low lives scum of the earth people who graduated college with a PhD in political science or philosophy they cant find a JOB and look down on those who work with their hands rather than having a college degree and then want us to pay for it as these morons cannot pay off their $100,000 college loans like A O Cortez from NY a BARMAID who is now in congress.

I was working on scaffolds working with my father who was a roofer when I was 12 years old and worked on a chair installing leader pipes on the side of 6-10 story buildings rope and a Navy bosun chair which we made out of 3/4" plywood.

I worked on a dairy farm when I was 15 and I joined the navy when I turned 17 for a 3-year enlistment and was a boiler tender 1,500 PSI superheated steam.

My training did not come cheap and it is still ongoing

There is nothing better than trade because no matter how much of a recession this country has people need heat, clean water a nonleaking roof, and sewerage disposal

The colleges today are useless and we need skilled people finding decent employees is difficult and it is getting worse

The POS governor in NYS wants to legalize pot which is great BUT what happens if a pothead or drunk causes a gas leak? what a drug-addicted moron driving one of my vans? Is the governor held responsible?

 

[MrBlob]

Mr |Blob this is what pisses me off

Now we have these low lives scum of the earth people who graduated college with a PhD in political science or philosophy they cant find a JOB and look down on those who work with their hands rather than having a college degree and then want us to pay for it as these morons cannot pay off their $100,000 college loans like A O Cortez from NY a BARMAID who is now in congress.

As a guy with a PhD (not in political science, thankfully) and no student loans, I can tell you it's a common misconception, we do not look down on tradesmen. It's just, as you correctly pointed out, we can't always afford them! You must be thinking of country clubs, but we are not welcome there either

I am guilty of looking down on a pothead or a clueless person full of himself showing up to my calls. And in most cases you really can tell within minutes. This has nothing to do with the trade though. The true professionals are roughly the same kind of people no matter what they do and the same goes for slackers.

However, it does seems a barrier to entry into some trades is fairly low. Folks get in, never learn anything, and then ruin the image of the whole trade. Sure, you talk to a pro boss over the phone, but the guy who shows up is still a fool with a tool. In your story about the music school, your journeymen was about to do the same thing everyone else did - good thing you were around to show the ropes.

Going through forums and plumbers magazines, it would seem plumbing companies do go through recessions. Maybe this is regional? I would imagine your typical NYC dweller has no choice but to call a pro, whereas in more rural areas folks can try to dig in and wait it out till the going gets going.

Sorry if this got completely off-topic. I'm enjoying the conversation and the different perspective.

 

[Sylvan]

I was on a "plumbers site" and some moron asked "what does politics have to do with us"


Then I think of Biden opening the borders without testing the invaders or doing a background search on them YET plumbers to get a license in NYC needs a complete background test and drug testing etc

With the influx of invaders working off the books and no one knows what education they may have it does place the public at risk.

The pipeline had been put on hold meaning thousands of workers are now looking for work and fuel is being transported by air-polluting trucks instead of a clean means of distribution. As the price of fuel increase so does the cost of living (COLA) which we have to pass on to the consumer

A $15 per hr increase will cost the employers close to $25 per hr considering my insurance is based on payroll and my matching social security also is increased and of course, this will also be passed onto the general public

Because of lawsuits, insurance increased dramatically for the medical profession and multi-family building owners along with higher taxes to give "free food, free housing , and free medical" to those who never paid a cent into this country

Lately, as I travel I see mechanical flag wavers on road construction as machines do not get a pension, are drug-free, show up no matter what the weather conditions are and never complain and meet all safety standards.

The USA has gone crazy allowing men to compete in women's sports

Many years ago I proposed three bathrooms to be installed to be politically incorrect

1- Male, 2- Female, 3- and people will have a choice

We have too many homeless citizens and many are veterians and yet they are overlooked when people want people to come here undocumented and given all types of "entitlements" instead of calling it what it is HANDOUTS paid for by the taxpayers who were not asked if this was what their hard-earned money was for which again does have a severe impact on our industry as well as others


When I won a bid to do work for NYC or the federal government I no longer knew who actually owned my company

I had to hire by a quota not the best qualified which of course puts the public at risk of having inferior workers placed in a position that has no idea what they are doing.

Isn't this discrimination being told to meet a quota? It is saying " these people are not smart enough to compete in the job market so you have to hire them to get them to "feel good" about themselves and get them the hell off welfare for a while

Plumbing is complex especially when morons in politics dictate policy

NYC FD stated they would not enter a building that has PVC as the smoke is highly toxic

At that time plastic was only allowed in residential buildings 3 stories or less BUT NYC has the best politicians money can buy so they increased the use of PVC to 5 stories or less residential only.

When the 1.6 GPF toilet was mandatory my sewer cleaning increased by over 200% because of the lack of scouring of the main sewer lines

A fixture unit is based on 7.48 gallons ( 1 cubic foot) or by a pump and each gallon pumped is considered 1 FU and by interpolation of changing square foot of storm drainage into GPM flow. The sewer and waste piping are sized by the GPM flow that allows solids to flow with the wastewater.

Having too little water will leave solids back and very little scouring action of the piping allowing bacteria to incubate in these piping which of course caused mosquitoes to flourish and we had an outbreak of West Nile disease.

The plumbing industry board was never consulted just some moron politician decided to save water no matter what the after-effects may result

Now the USA is buying masks from the same country that started this plague.

This is amazing all a country has to do is create a virus in a lab ( classic NBC warfare) let it spread then produce masks and manufacture a vaccine to combat the plague they made and this makes everyone happy especially those who want to decrease the population as abortions don't seem to be killing enough people. NYS the abortion capital of the USA

Did you know several fetuses every year are removed from the sewer systems in NYC?

When a plumber happens to snake a fetus they must notify the police to go to central booking make out a report saying they only removed it while performing normal sewer cleaning and did not abort the baby themselves, sign an affidavit and spend several hours of their time. so many do not bother to even report it .

Who said plumbing is not educational?

 

[Jeff H Young]

Mr Blog I dont know why you recieved poor service , But many Techs , mechanics, Plumbers, learn mostly from experiance or entirely from experiance and picking up a few tricks from someone else who learned the same way. In my Area Southern Ca. we have good apprenticeships for union plumber but very much geared toward construction. A good plumber could finish training and turn out journeyman and still be really green in many aspects might know high rise work but not be proficent at layout and plumbing a new custom home or be able to hang doing repairs.
There definatly is a void in good service and repair men .