How do you get a plumber?

Users who are viewing this thread

MrBlob

New Member
Messages
19
Reaction score
6
Points
3
Location
DC
Please bear with me. This is not a hate post, just looking for pointers. Here is a background.

My kitchen sink backed up. Tried to snake it with 25ft snake (2" line), but quickly determined it is a grease. Every plumbing site tells you to call a pro, because it is hard, the machines are very dangerous, and it requires a special skill. Makes sense. I called a reputable & recommended local company - they spent about an hour going at it with a 1/2" with bulb, cuter and a Y-head. Told me it is impossible and the only option would be to jet it, but they do not know who can do it. Called around and was told nobody jets inside the house, only outside. Ok. Called a national chain company that does drains only. The guy who showed up was super knowledgeable and went at it with a 3/8" snake that had an old-school cut off and bent tip. After an hour or two, he told me there is nothing that can be done and my only option is breaking my concrete floor and replacing the pipe. Not willing to pay yet another guy $200-$600 just for trying (the first guy charged, but the second did not), I've got a drain machine and worked the blockage until it cleared up - probably 10-20 feet of grease in the 40ft secondary line. Probably spent 4 to 8 hours and rode it back and forth at least a few dozen times if not more, one time with a towel. To be fair, I got some ideas of how to approach it from reading professional forums and talking to yet another local plumber for unrelated reasons - may be he was the guy to go.

Now the question - why did the pros gave up on me? Didn't want to deal with the amount of work? Or other reasons? Why they did not try other things like a flush bag etc? Is inside jetting in a 2" line even a thing (I do see 1/8" machines for rent)? Finally, how do you find someone who can handle a specific job like this? Should I try to interview folks before scheduling a visit? I would appreciate any pointers!
 

Attachments

  • IMG_7187.JPG
    IMG_7187.JPG
    28 KB · Views: 219

Jeff H Young

In the Trades
Messages
8,753
Reaction score
2,164
Points
113
Location
92346
Maybe they didn't think they could get enough money out of the deal. weren't that good at the job, I've never jetted before but would assume a kitchen 2 inch line a perfect candidate for jetting
 

PlumbNuts

SC Licensed Plumbing Contractor
Messages
251
Reaction score
83
Points
28
Location
Fort Mill,SC
Website
riverviewplumbingrepair.com
With every job there are certain amounts of risks involved, each company has their own standard as to how much risk they are willing to accept.
Hypothetical:
If Plumber A had said "okay, I will jet your line for $450.00!" and you agreed; he then proceeds to jet your line but was not aware that there was a bar sink that was tied into that line, after the jetter passed that connection it started spraying nasty, greasy sewage water back through the drain and all over your walls and carpet. Now Plumber A is liable for the thousands of dollars in damage for a $450.00 job.

Jetting inside of a home is very risky and most companies are not willing to do it.

Most plumbers can handle a wide variety of issues and handle them very well, but there are always those occasional situations where things just don't go as you hope for.

But yes, Always check a "Professionals" quailifications and reviews before allowing him into your home.
 

James Henry

In the Trades
Messages
1,575
Reaction score
400
Points
83
Location
Billings, Montana.
With every job there are certain amounts of risks involved, each company has their own standard as to how much risk they are willing to accept.
Hypothetical:
If Plumber A had said "okay, I will jet your line for $450.00!" and you agreed; he then proceeds to jet your line but was not aware that there was a bar sink that was tied into that line, after the jetter passed that connection it started spraying nasty, greasy sewage water back through the drain and all over your walls and carpet. Now Plumber A is liable for the thousands of dollars in damage for a $450.00 job.

Jetting inside of a home is very risky and most companies are not willing to do it.

Most plumbers can handle a wide variety of issues and handle them very well, but there are always those occasional situations where things just don't go as you hope for.

But yes, Always check a "Professionals" quailifications and reviews before allowing him into your home.

That's pretty much it. Jetting is messy. Find some way to dissolve the grease and don't put any more down the drain.
 
Last edited:

Sylvan

Still learning
Messages
2,757
Reaction score
689
Points
113
Location
New York
A flush bag can force water up the vent and then if the stoppage is not cleared when the bag is removed it will cause a flood

Also, most plumbers should know that connecting a direct water supply to a waste or sewer line shows a lack of experience as plumbing codes frown upon contaminating the potable water supply

Picture this.

You place a pipe in a can of grease or sand at a beach remove the pipe as soon as you remove the pipe (snake) it will close up

A semi-decent plumber would have an option to use an electric Jetter for indoor work that has 1,200 -1,500 PSI and 1.2 -2 GPM flow and has the common sense to have a 1/8" hose to negotiate tight bends and have a wet-dry vacuum to suck up the water that may come out of the line

Unfortunately, there is no formal training in drain cleaning it is OJT only to hone the skills

The other reason most plumbers or drain guy quit is they realize they have the wrong equipment or it will take longer than they expected and time is money

Ideally, a mechanic will try to snake a line that has grease or soil (soft stoppages) to try to establish some flow then use a Jetter to scour the line to restore full flow


When Jetting I always have someone with me to either use the wet-dry

When I do water jetting I charge 3 times more than snaking as the equipment is more expensive and wear and take tear on the hoses into consideration


 

PlumbNuts

SC Licensed Plumbing Contractor
Messages
251
Reaction score
83
Points
28
Location
Fort Mill,SC
Website
riverviewplumbingrepair.com
A flush bag can force water up the vent and then if the stoppage is not cleared when the bag is removed it will cause a flood

Also, most plumbers should know that connecting a direct water supply to a waste or sewer line shows a lack of experience as plumbing codes frown upon contaminating the potable water supply

Picture this.

You place a pipe in a can of grease or sand at a beach remove the pipe as soon as you remove the pipe (snake) it will close up

A semi-decent plumber would have an option to use an electric Jetter for indoor work that has 1,200 -1,500 PSI and 1.2 -2 GPM flow and has the common sense to have a 1/8" hose to negotiate tight bends and have a wet-dry vacuum to suck up the water that may come out of the line

Unfortunately, there is no formal training in drain cleaning it is OJT only to hone the skills

The other reason most plumbers or drain guy quit is they realize they have the wrong equipment or it will take longer than they expected and time is money

Ideally, a mechanic will try to snake a line that has grease or soil (soft stoppages) to try to establish some flow then use a Jetter to scour the line to restore full flow


When Jetting I always have someone with me to either use the wet-dry

When I do water jetting I charge 3 times more than snaking as the equipment is more expensive and wear and take tear on the hoses into consideration

Making a decision to not perform a job that has more risk than you are willing to accept has absolutely no bearing on wether a plumber is decent, semi-decent or not decent at all.
Because you made a decision to purchase certain equipment does not mean that you are more decent than anyone else, it simply means you are willing to accept more risks.

I thought the purpose of this forum was to help others, not to put others down!
 

James Henry

In the Trades
Messages
1,575
Reaction score
400
Points
83
Location
Billings, Montana.
Making a decision to not perform a job that has more risk than you are willing to accept has absolutely no bearing on wether a plumber is decent, semi-decent or not decent at all.
Because you made a decision to purchase certain equipment does not mean that you are more decent than anyone else, it simply means you are willing to accept more risks.

I thought the purpose of this forum was to help others, not to put others down!

It's not you, he does that with everyone, he got the last guy kicked off and he's done it to me. don't let him discourage you. this forum helps a lot of people when their are good plumbers on here giving advice.
 

Reach4

Well-Known Member
Messages
38,795
Reaction score
4,413
Points
113
Location
IL
I've got a drain machine and worked the blockage until it cleared up - probably 10-20 feet of grease in the 40ft secondary line.
I am not a pro. I confident that you have decided to not put fats down the disposal or kitchen drain, and instead put meat trimmings into the garbage.

Grease is the item that old fashioned Drano or other lye-based product can do a good job on I think. The downside is that it is harmful to people who work on that drain later, if the lye cannot be washed out. But lye combines with grease to produce soap. Soap dissolves, and washes away. Is there some pipe that lye would be bad for? I am not sure. Original Drano is not pure lye, but instead has aluminum chips that react with lye to make heat. That hastens reactions and may melt fats. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drano

Enough heat would be bad for plastic pipes.
 

PlumbNuts

SC Licensed Plumbing Contractor
Messages
251
Reaction score
83
Points
28
Location
Fort Mill,SC
Website
riverviewplumbingrepair.com
I am not a pro. I confident that you have decided to not put fats down the disposal or kitchen drain, and instead put meat trimmings into the garbage.

Grease is the item that old fashioned Drano or other lye-based product can do a good job on I think. The downside is that it is harmful to people who work on that drain later, if the lye cannot be washed out. But lye combines with grease to produce soap. Soap dissolves, and washes away. Is there some pipe that lye would be bad for? I am not sure. Original Drano is not pure lye, but instead has aluminum chips that react with lye to make heat. That hastens reactions and may melt fats. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drano

Enough heat would be bad for plastic pipes.
Enzyme based drain cleaners work well for this also, just not as fast but they are safer.
 

hj

Master Plumber
Messages
33,600
Reaction score
1,037
Points
113
Location
Cave Creek, Arizona
Website
www.terrylove.com
When you try jet a line, water goes into the pipe and if the pipe is clogged the water has to go somewhere, usually back out from the hole where the jetter is going into the pipe. IF that "hole" is inside the building, it is going to cause a flood, unless you can contain and dispose of the water. Which is why few plumbers would jet indoors. I have unclogged grease clogged lines. It just takes longer and needs the right snake head.
 

Reach4

Well-Known Member
Messages
38,795
Reaction score
4,413
Points
113
Location
IL
I was just thinking... I successfully rodded a lavatory drain through the p-trap. There was no pop-up linkage. I was not expecting success, but it seemed worth a try. The advantage was that there was the sink bowl that I could run water into as I ran the drill-powered small snake. Water backed up as I ran water at a rate that would keep the bowl partially full. Before I knew it, the snake had played out maybe 12 ft of snake. Suddenly the sink bowl emptied, and I turned on the faucet to max. (I did not retract the snake under power so that I could measure what I had anticipated might be only a foot or two.) I was pleasantly surprised to see how much snake had made it.

My idea would be for a kitchen with a slip joint p-trap, to replace the p-trap path with a more direct connection for this purpose only. If the existing basket has an obstruction, which most do, replace the basket temporarily. Then a Clog Hog could be pushed down the sink drain. A smaller Clog Hog (maybe https://www.cloghog.com/proddetail.php?prod=50-Ft-High-Thrust-Needle-Nose-Drain-Cleaner-Set )can be connected to an electric pressure washer. The sink bowl would be there to collect any blow-back water.
 
Last edited:

LLigetfa

DIYer, not in the trades
Messages
7,497
Reaction score
575
Points
113
Location
NW Ontario, Canada
Also, most plumbers should know that connecting a direct water supply to a waste or sewer line shows a lack of experience as plumbing codes frown upon contaminating the potable water supply
We do mobile hot or cold jetting using large trucks that are self contained and have several hours worth of water on board. Usually it is the plumber that calls us when they run out of options.
 

Jeff H Young

In the Trades
Messages
8,753
Reaction score
2,164
Points
113
Location
92346
You guys bring up a lot of points , that have helped me decide to steer clear of this aspect of plumbing. After 33 years in trade Im not going out as a helper to learn all the tricks and learning on your own kinda risky, and can be expensive.
Ive used drain bladder befor they can work really good , but highly risky, cables get stuck , break , come out in a room start whipping black stuff all over. much of this is with the very inexperianced.
So unless your the "bad guy" charging 500 bucks for an hour job . that winds up taking 8 and wear and tear on everything you might not make money. then you have what i concider the dirty players adver tize any drain cleared for...... pick a number ending in 9 29 dollars 49 dollars 99 dollars
A tough buisness from what I see for those wanting to operate honest. so thats in a nut shell why I stay clear. I know of at least one guy on here main gig is drains like to hear his thought on this or others .
no real help to offer on how to find a good company for drain work
 

Jeff H Young

In the Trades
Messages
8,753
Reaction score
2,164
Points
113
Location
92346
We do mobile hot or cold jetting using large trucks that are self contained and have several hours worth of water on board. Usually it is the plumber that calls us when they run out of options.

Intresting a lot of plumbers here sub-contract out sewer epoxy lining and become a middle man.
In regards to jetting is jetting indoors something you never do? In my area its about 90 percent concrete slab homes maybe risk is less but thought a kitchen line not that risky especial with a 2 man crew
 

MrBlob

New Member
Messages
19
Reaction score
6
Points
3
Location
DC
Thank you guy, your replies really help! I think a lot of it has do with being in a big city - there is always a ton of much easier gigs to go around, so why bother with a full day job? I think if you live in the boonies and value your customers - you would be willing to stay there for a week until it is solved. Just to be clear - I was willing to pay whatever it takes, but both parties, when asked 'what do I do next' basically said 'heck do we know'. Based on reading a few more sources, the national company guy was basically trying to upsell a dig job. Still, this was the only option available, since I could not find anyone to jet. I also did not mind the mess or my kitchen destroyed which I expressed the best I could (it is old and dilapidated anyway), and even cut a piece of wall for the second guy to inspect the piping. Heck, if your only option is a $3500 dig to replace the pipe - there is a lot wiggle room, including completely destroying the pipe in the process. Now, the pipe itself is a straight 35' run of 2" PVC to the main after a few 90s (I know this because I ran a cheap camera in the main line). The vent stack is about 2' from the sink and it is fairly easy to make sure you are going down, not up. If you do jet, all of it would be draining back under the sink and not into the vent.
 

MrBlob

New Member
Messages
19
Reaction score
6
Points
3
Location
DC
My idea would be for a kitchen with a slip joint p-trap, to replace the p-trap path with a more direct connection for this purpose only. If the existing basket has an obstruction, which most do, replace the basket temporarily. Then a Clog Hog could be pushed down the sink drain. A smaller Clog Hog (maybe https://www.cloghog.com/proddetail.php?prod=50-Ft-High-Thrust-Needle-Nose-Drain-Cleaner-Set )can be connected to an electric pressure washer. The sink bowl would be there to collect any blow-back water.

Right. My 2" line under the think was changing into 1.5" pipe and than a p-trap. The first thing they've done was to cut close to the transition to get a direct access to 2" and then put a rubber sleeve on it. Then they inserted an elbow into the sleeve with a short stab of a pipe to make snaking much easier. Would have never thought of that and probably worth the fee they charged.


Thanks for the link, I will check it out. Most of the solutions on Amazon seem to be too flimsy. However, folks do report being able to connect a Spartan or General Wire hose to a regular pressure washer and cobble together a pulsating valve - this might be the way to go.
 
Last edited:

LLigetfa

DIYer, not in the trades
Messages
7,497
Reaction score
575
Points
113
Location
NW Ontario, Canada
In regards to jetting is jetting indoors something you never do?
I've never jetted indoor drains but have jetted the outdoor drain from the cleanout in the basement. Mostly we do commercial/industrial jetting and vac work.

We don't have any of the small jetting lines for smaller pipe and our jetters don't have pulse mode which I imagine would help the line move forward. We don't use portable jetters either. Ours are truck or trailer mounted and powered by a 4 cylinder diesel. Our boiler is such that you cannot stop the flow without first turning off the burner and getting rid of the residual heat, so I really cannot see it working on residential drains.
 

MrBlob

New Member
Messages
19
Reaction score
6
Points
3
Location
DC
We do mobile hot or cold jetting using large trucks that are self contained and have several hours worth of water on board. Usually it is the plumber that calls us when they run out of options.
That's what I was expecting to see. You run out of options - call someone who does. Never happened. There is dozen of plumbing companies within 10 mile radius, but no one talks to each other? I see reports of pros running a 1/8" line directly from a truck to avoid a mess; but I do sense it is more of an exotic case than a common practice. I'm leaning to buying a portable jetter from Spartan or General Wire as an insurance the next time it happens.
 

MrBlob

New Member
Messages
19
Reaction score
6
Points
3
Location
DC
I've never jetted indoor drains but have jetted the outdoor drain from the cleanout in the basement. Mostly we do commercial/industrial jetting and vac work.

We don't have any of the small jetting lines for smaller pipe and our jetters don't have pulse mode which I imagine would help the line move forward. We don't use portable jetters either. Ours are truck or trailer mounted and powered by a 4 cylinder diesel. Our boiler is such that you cannot stop the flow without first turning off the burner and getting rid of the residual heat, so I really cannot see it working on residential drains.

That's what was explained to me by a few companies I've called. Why is that the case? A low return on investment? I do realize 90% of clogs can be opened by a snake alone and then you get to come back in a few years. Is that it?
 
Top
Hey, wait a minute.

This is awkward, but...

It looks like you're using an ad blocker. We get it, but (1) terrylove.com can't live without ads, and (2) ad blockers can cause issues with videos and comments. If you'd like to support the site, please allow ads.

If any particular ad is your REASON for blocking ads, please let us know. We might be able to do something about it. Thanks.
I've Disabled AdBlock    No Thanks