How do I upsize building supply off a water meter?

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Brandon Weiss

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Apologies if this has already been asked (I looked but couldn’t find a good answer).

I’m renovating a one-floor, ~1,500 square foot house into a 4 bedroom, 2 bath. It’s mostly pretty standard fixtures, except there will also be a plumbed steam oven and an outdoor shower. It seems like I’ll need about 30 supply fixture units. I’m planning on using PEX A (Uponor).

If this is relevant, I’m in Santa Cruz which has an average water supply pressure of 90 PSI, so I was planning on putting in a pressure regulating valve to reduce it to 45–55 PSI.

The rough flow order I was planning was:

Meter -> Two hose bibbs -> PRV -> Smart shutoff -> Water softener -> and then branch to cold and hot (tankless)

My water meter is currently 5/8". I’d never heard of that until now but it seems like it’s 5/8" x 3/4", so effectively a 3/4" meter.

According to Terry’s water supply fixture units table or this slightly more detailed one I definitely need a 1" building supply to meet my 30 fixture units, but I’m not quite clear on exactly how to upsize.

How do I upsize off the meter?

I was looking at Uponor’s water meter fittings and they only have two:
  • 1" NPSM to 3/4" PEX
  • 1 1/4" NPSM to 1" PEX
It’s my understanding that a 3/4" meter has 1" NPSM threads, but if I use that fitting that will leave me with only a 3/4" PEX line and not an upsized 1" PEX line.

Do I just run a short piece of 3/4" PEX off the meter and then use another fitting to convert that to 1" PEX for the rest of the run to the house? Or is there a 1" NPSM to 1" PEX fitting? I looked but I can’t seem to find one if it exists.

Where to reduce from 1" to 3/4"?

This is somewhat related but my water heater has a 3/4" connection so at some point I need to reduce from the 1" building supply line down to 3/4", but I’m not sure where is best to do that.

Do I reduce to 3/4" right before the PRV and use a 3/4" PRV, 3/4" smart shutoff, and 3/4" water softener? Or do I run the 1" supply through a 1" PRV, 1" smart shutoff, and 1" water softener, then reduce to 3/4" then branch to go to the water heater and cold line?

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Thanks so much!
 
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Tuttles Revenge

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This is the transition fitting from 3/4 NPT to 1" ProPEX LF4521075

I believe that PEX is rather new to California and one big difference to our jurisdiction is that the PEX must be sleeved underground. Also it must be buried with a tracer wire so the tube can be located when someone needs to dig the yard any time in the future.
 

wwhitney

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How far from the meter to the house, and how far from there to the farthest fixture?

The part Tuttle found has a 3/4" MIP end and would work with a regular straight meter connector and a 3/4" brass coupling. A quick search didn't turn up a 3/4" FIP x 1" expansion PEX adapter, that would save a joint. You could also use a 1" MIP x 1" expansion PEX fitting with a 3/4" x 1" brass reducing coupling and the straight meter connector.

The requirement about sleeving is Note 3 to Table 604.1 here:

https://up.codes/viewer/california/...chapter/6/water-supply-and-distribution#604.0

Cheers, Wayne
 

Brandon Weiss

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This is the transition fitting from 3/4 NPT to 1" ProPEX LF4521075

I believe that PEX is rather new to California and one big difference to our jurisdiction is that the PEX must be sleeved underground. Also it must be buried with a tracer wire so the tube can be located when someone needs to dig the yard any time in the future.

Thanks! But I’m a little confused as to what you’re suggesting. My understanding is that water meters use NPSM (National Pipe Straight Mechanical) and not NPT (tapered), so I don’t think I can connect that fitting you linked directly to the meter. Are you suggesting I use a 1" NPSM to 3/4" NPT first, and then use a 3/4" NPT to 1" PEX?

Ah yeah, I knew it needed to be sleeved, but I didn’t know about the tracer wire. That makes sense, thanks!
 

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I think Wayne did suggest the correct course of action to use a straight threaded X tapered nipple.. and a brass coupling to the male adapter.

I couldn't find a correct female adapter which should code up LF4571075.. No product on
 

wwhitney

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That's funny, I initially misread the last post as suggesting using a 1" NPSM Female x (3/4" or 1") FIP water meter connector to a (3/4" or 1" MIP) x 1" expansion PEX adapter. Which would eliminate one threaded connection; not sure if being nonstandard would be annoying in the future. Apparently FIP end water meter connectors do exist, e.g. Ford C31-xx-NL style:

https://www.fordmeterbox.com/submittals/catalog/h

Cheers, Wayne
 

Brandon Weiss

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How far from the meter to the house, and how far from there to the farthest fixture?

The part Tuttle found has a 3/4" MIP end and would work with a regular straight meter connector and a 3/4" brass coupling. A quick search didn't turn up a 3/4" FIP x 1" expansion PEX adapter, that would save a joint. You could also use a 1" MIP x 1" expansion PEX fitting with a 3/4" x 1" brass reducing coupling and the straight meter connector.

The requirement about sleeving is Note 3 to Table 604.1 here:

https://up.codes/viewer/california/...chapter/6/water-supply-and-distribution#604.0

Cheers, Wayne

It’s about 10 feet from the meter to the house, and then from there to the farthest fixture would be about 50 feet. Actually 65 feet if you count the outdoor shower.

Oh okay, so it sounds like you’re saying what people do is they use two (or three) adapters to make it work.

Yeah, I can’t find a 3/4" FIPT to 1" PEX-A adapter, so it seems like the reducing coupling is the way to go. Here are the three parts:
 

wwhitney

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Yes, that's the obvious way to do it. If you could track down one of these, you could eliminate the coupling:

https://www.fordmeterbox.com/products/item/c31-24-nl
https://www.fordmeterbox.com/products/item/c38-24-2-5-nl

Probably not worth it. The only other option that occurs to me is some sort of compression or pack joint coupling that would go directly on the PEX (not a F1960 expansion fitting). I don't really understand pack joint connections or know if anything like that exists.

Cheers, Wayne
 

Brandon Weiss

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Yes, that's the obvious way to do it. If you could track down one of these, you could eliminate the coupling:

https://www.fordmeterbox.com/products/item/c31-24-nl
https://www.fordmeterbox.com/products/item/c38-24-2-5-nl

Probably not worth it. The only other option that occurs to me is some sort of compression or pack joint coupling that would go directly on the PEX (not a F1960 expansion fitting). I don't really understand pack joint connections or know if anything like that exists.

Cheers, Wayne

Oh wow, those Ford fittings are a good find! They seem like a special order but it might be worth it to get rid of a fitting
 

Brandon Weiss

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@wwhitney One more question, if you have time. Where would you reduce from 1" down to 3/4"? Before the PRV, shutoff, and water softener? Or after the PRV, shutoff, and water softener but before the water heater?
 
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wwhitney

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I don't really understand pack joint connections or know if anything like that exists.
OK, reading Ford's catalog I think you could feed the 1" PEX directly into one of these meter couplings:

https://www.fordmeterbox.com/products/item/c34-24-nl
https://www.fordmeterbox.com/products/item/C34-24-G-NL
https://www.fordmeterbox.com/products/item/C34-24-Q-NL

if you use this insert in the PEX:

https://www.fordmeterbox.com/products/item/INSERT-52

I have no idea on the merits of the different styles of CTS compression joints.

As to reducing down from 1", on the cold side, I'd say as late as convenient--run 1" PEX up to 18" from the water heater, then convert to a 3/4" metallic method to connect to the water heater.

Cheers, Wayne
 

Brandon Weiss

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These are fascinating couplings! This catalog has a good visual cross-section and sort of explains how each of the three different types works, although I wish they explained why there are three different types and why you might want to choose one over another. I’m leaning towards the “quick joint” because it sort of seems the least finicky.
 

Jeff H Young

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Brandon, don't you have an existing meter with a 3/4 inch male threaded tail piece? you just put a 1 inch x 3/4 brass bell reducer on the meter and go you aren't hooking PEX to the meter directly.
PEX isn't new to California my house is 20 years old original PEX. but the underground on mine is PVC. Actually a 10 foot service might be better to run copper because typically or at least very often in so ca there will be a ball valve , irrigation tee and PRV and hose bib exposed on outside of house. Be sure to check code on underground PEX as Tuttles said California has some requirements
 

Brandon Weiss

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Brandon, don't you have an existing meter with a 3/4 inch male threaded tail piece? you just put a 1 inch x 3/4 brass bell reducer on the meter and go you aren't hooking PEX to the meter directly.
PEX isn't new to California my house is 20 years old original PEX. but the underground on mine is PVC. Actually a 10 foot service might be better to run copper because typically or at least very often in so ca there will be a ball valve , irrigation tee and PRV and hose bib exposed on outside of house. Be sure to check code on underground PEX as Tuttles said California has some requirements

I can’t remember exactly what fittings are there currently—I’ll have to take another look (I don’t live on the property yet). But most likely it’s a 1" NPSM (female) to 3/4" NPT (male) fitting on the meter. The building supply line is 3/4" galvanized steel, so presumably there’s a 3/4" female coupling connecting the fitting on the meter to the pipe.

Yeah, I guess could leave the fitting on the meter and just get the reducing fitting and the adapter to PEX, but if I’m already disassembling most of the connections I’ll probably replace the fitting on the meter as well. And if I can use one of those Ford fittings and have only one that would be especially nice.
 
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