How close to bottom of well can place a sub?

[Valveman]

Won't the shroud keep it from filling in?

The shroud will keep the hole cleaned out to that point, IF you get the pump installed to that depth to start with. The well will usually fill back into a certain point before you get the pump set. So if you precut the pipe, you may bottom out before it sets down on the well seal.

I guess I could buy another 20' stick, attach and drop to bottom...raise back up a couple feet and measure, then take the stick back to the driller so they can thread it for me at my measurement...I can cut it.

That is what I would do.

 

[Jfharper]

This is a bit unconventional but it's what I'd do in your situation.

If you have a twin-line jet pump you can place a tail-piece on the bottom of the jet about 34 ft long. The water will never be drawn below the intake to the jet and the pump will never out-pump the well. Plus, since the footvalve has a screen on the bottom it will prevent most of the trash from being sucked up. I would place this device as high as you can above the debris in the bottom but in as much water as you can. At least 20-30 ft into the water is where the tail pipe should be.

The pump will never out-pump the well and will balance with the water coming in. If the well makes 5 GPM the pump will pump 5 GPM. No worries about clogging up an expensive submersible or shrouds etc. If need be you can even install another screen over the tail-pipe to keep the mud/sand from clogging the jet if it becomes a problem.

Good luck with your project and keep updating this thread.

View attachment 24898

Thanks...that's very interesting...ill be brainstorming that for possible future use.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Jfharper]

The shroud will keep the hole cleaned out to that point, IF you get the pump installed to that depth to start with. The well will usually fill back into a certain point before you get the pump set. So if you precut the pipe, you may bottom out before it sets down on the well seal.



That is what I would do.

Got it...thanks.

 

[Jfharper]

Reach asked for some photos of the two Ts on the clean out rig...I can't take credit for the system...Paul Smith put a YouTube video together on digging your own well...I contacted him and he was very willing to help with some questions I had, and helped me confirm some ideas...I made my drilling head...the u shaped coupler at the end from advice from the well driller...he said shape it like this so you don't crack the pvc casing...that got me thinking to do the clean out gently, not pound it up and down in the well.

This is all the clean out pipe


The well back together


Some shots of the two Ts...one for water...one for air



The drilling head...u shaped coupler

 

[Texas Wellman]

Very nice. Love threads like these.

 

[LLigetfa]

What are the spec's on the air compressor? I always thought you'd need a big compressor like what is used to run a jackhammer. Did it work without the supplemental water line?

My neighbor has a homemade airlift eductor pump that hooks up to a large tow behind compressor. I think it has a 3/4" air line and a 2" discharge.

 

[akcooper9]

Very nice. Love threads like these.

I agree! Thanks for sharing

 

[Valveman]

Did it work without the supplemental water line?

The water usually comes from the well itself. An air line is all you should need. The more water in the well the harder it is to air lift.

 

[LLigetfa]

The more water in the well the harder it is to air lift.

I would expect the opposite. The higher the water level, the less distance it needs to lift. The distance from the bottom of the well to the top of the water is not only free, but adds to lift capacity. If the well doesn't recover fast enough, then the flow rate is limited.

On my neighbor's eductor, there is another upturn and jet on the end to aid the lift.

 

[Craigpump]

Nope, more water, more down hole psi which takes more air pressure to get the column of water moving

 

[LLigetfa]

Nope, more water, more down hole psi which takes more air pressure to get the column of water moving

I think we all know the .43 PSI per foot rule and it is a given that the compressor must be able to produce the PSI needed. If the water level of the OP's 80 foot well were to the top of the casing, the initial PSI at the bottom is only 35. As the air bubbles displace water, the weight of the column above the eductor becomes less and the pressure differential is what moves the column upward. If the water level is too low and differential is not enough to raise the water from that level to the top of the casing, then that meets my definition of "harder to air lift".

I guess the term "harder to air lift it" may need clarification. The actual "lifting" is only that which is above the water level. The higher it needs to lift it, the more CFM may be required.

 

[Jfharper]

What are the spec's on the air compressor? I always thought you'd need a big compressor like what is used to run a jackhammer. Did it work without the supplemental water line?

My neighbor has a homemade airlift eductor pump that hooks up to a large tow behind compressor. I think it has a 3/4" air line and a 2" discharge.

25 gal tank, regular 110v, 5hp, 5.6 CFM at 90psi, 8.2 CFM at 40psi. The clean out you see occurring in the photos is at 85' down...and that was probably at 40-60psi air...I had just turned the compressor on and in less than a minute shot those photos. My air line was 1/4", and the compressors top pressure is 125psi...just a regular shop compressor.

It worked without the supplemental water most of the time, but when I sunk down in the sediment the air lift stopped and I heard bubbles down the well...I then thought well water wasn't getting down in the sediment or in the clean out pipe so I turned on the supplemental water and the airlift resumed...I didn't want to run the supplemental water too much because it was pulling from our holding tank and I didn't want to run out of water to the house for toilets, sinks, and showers.

When I was putting the the clean out rig away yesterday I found sediment had clogged the supplemental water line...at the end I remember turning the water line on to try and get the airlift to resume but it didn't seem like water was going down the hose when I turned on the valve...I thought I had run out of water, in the holding tank but that was not the case because I still had 45psi of water pressure at the pressure tanks...if i ran out of water the psi would be 0...I thought the air lift should still work because I was lifting it out of the sediment where there was well water, but for some reason it would not go again...that's when I stopped...because I was running out of time...I had planned to do this in one day, with overnight shock treatment, but when I got into the job...I realized I should take my time and not rush so it took two days plus overnight shock...Thats why i stopped...so i could get the well water back on...i didn't know how long the holding tank was going to last us...we used water sparingly and didn't run out.

I only accomplished a supposed 80' of clean out, unless it filled back in, even though I was able to sink the clean out to 85' as in the photos.

I think I'd like to try this again...I'm going to adjust my system to where I can pull my sub in less time and put the clean out rig back in to see if I can get down deeper...I accomplished replacing my drop pipe with sch 80 stuff so that is good and I know I got to 85' with clean out...if I can get deeper and it stays, then maybe I can just buy a 20' stick from the driller and not have to worry about cutting, taking back and threading, etc...I live 30 minutes away from the driller and have to tow my boat to carry 20' of anything...I put 20' stuff on my 16.5' aluminum bass boat...it's an old bass boat...not a pretty fiberglass boat.

Plus, I would have the benefit of gaining more well depth...besides this is kind of enjoyable to do.

 

[LLigetfa]

25 gal tank, regular 110v, 5hp, 5.6 CFM at 90psi, 8.2 CFM at 40psi...

OK, thanks for the info. Did the compressor keep up with the demand or did you just draw down the air in the tank and then have to wait for it to build back up? I need to clean out my well again this Summer and want to be able to overpump the well by airlifting until it runs clear, not just suck up the mud. My well is only 65 feet deep with a static level somewhere around 14 feet. I think 25 PSI would do it but not sure what CFM I need.

 

[Jfharper]

Neither...I turned my compressor on, ran it for a few minutes than turned it off...it cleaned out and sunk so fast I didn't need to keep it on long enough to see where it peaked out...after I turned it off I heard the air in the tank escape as the clean out gradually stopped...so I never ran it long enough to fill the tank to equal out...hope that helps...when it stopped air lifting, I ran the compressor longer to see if I could get it to start...the gauge went up to 80 psi when I turned it off...it probably would have kept climbing if I hadn't turned it off...so I never found out if the compressor would fill the tank and go to 125 psi and turn off.

I would say never needed more than 60 psi...more like 40 is what made it work...the tank was empty when I turned on the compressor...so the pressure went from 0-40psi pretty fast with a 5hp compressor.

 

[hj]

OF course there is regardless of the material. Abrasive material moving at a high speed will wear almost any material, which is how canyons are formed.

 

[Jfharper]

I was interested to learn what my submersible pump could handle. I've tried to google some info on subs, but I can't seem to find the info I'm after. Basically, when I drop my sub down, will it be able to push the amount of water needed up to me holding tank...and how far can I drop it before it wont push to the height I need?

When I had it out, I took pictures of the label...it said it is a Franklin electric 3-wire pump...there are only 3 wires going to it...red, yellow and black...it also has a control box. It said 1 hp, and I think 3450 rpm and 60hz. My holding tank is either 3750 or 4200 gallons based on some rough cylindrical measurements I took. The holding tank is set on a metal frame about 20-25 feet above ground level.

Can someone point me in a direction or simply reply with how deep this sub can be set and still push water the height I need? I'm assuming gpm flow comes into play as well. Lastly, if this pump is oversized a bit for my application, I'd like to know by how much so that if I ever have to replace it I could look at options that might better fit my budget at that time.

Thanks for any help.

 

[LLigetfa]

It's not the depth the pump is set but rather the depth to the top of the water that matters.

 

[Reach4]

I was interested to learn what my submersible pump could handle. I've tried to google some info on subs, but I can't seem to find the info I'm after. Basically, when I drop my sub down, will it be able to push the amount of water needed up to me holding tank...and how far can I drop it before it wont push to the height I need?

When I had it out, I took pictures of the label...it said it is a Franklin electric 3-wire pump...there are only 3 wires going to it...red, yellow and black...it also has a control box. It said 1 hp, and I think 3450 rpm and 60hz. My holding tank is either 3750 or 4200 gallons based on some rough cylindrical measurements I took. The holding tank is set on a metal frame about 20-25 feet above ground level.

Can someone point me in a direction or simply reply with how deep this sub can be set and still push water the height I need? I'm assuming gpm flow comes into play as well. Lastly, if this pump is oversized a bit for my application, I'd like to know by how much so that if I ever have to replace it I could look at options that might better fit my budget at that time.

The 1 HP on your submersible tells part of the story. However the pump part hooked to the motor can have differences including how many stages there are. So one with fewer stages might be set up to pump a lot of volume, and it could be a pump designed to push less volume but to provide more "head". If you put the part number into a a search, you can probably find "pump curves". The head the pump must generate is the sum of the height from the top of the water, and it must provide the pressure in a normal application. With your tank system, the head is probably the thing. For a given centrifugal pump, the more head being produced, the lower the flow.

So find your pump curves, and you will probably get interesting info from them.

 

[Jfharper]

The 1 HP on your submersible tells part of the story. However the pump part hooked to the motor can have differences including how many stages there are. So one with fewer stages might be set up to pump a lot of volume, and it could be a pump designed to push less volume but to provide more "head". If you put the part number into a a search, you can probably find "pump curves". The head the pump must generate is the sum of the height from the top of the water, and it must provide the pressure in a normal application. With your tank system, the head is probably the thing. For a given centrifugal pump, the more head being produced, the lower the flow.

So find your pump curves, and you will probably get interesting info from them.

I did do a search with my model number but didn't find the curves you mentioned, but the pump had a date code of L81, which valveman said was from 1981...so I'm not sure if it is too old to search on. I searched on franklin electric model search site and it brought nothing up...I am searching from a mobile device...maybe that website didn't like my mohel device.

 

[Reach4]

What is the model number of your Franklin pump?