Hi, trying to install a watering system for my rabbits...

[Axil]

I've got about 20 rabbits in my basement, and i'm tired of lugging 2 liter bottles up and down the stairs the leak and make a mess. I've got valves that are made to install into 1/2'' PVC and allow the animals to drink straight from the valve.

What i'm planning to do is install a copper T intersection into the water line feeding my washing machine, then a valve so i can turn the water off, then switch to PVC, i've read up on what information i could find. I've got the equipment to solder the copper and cement the PVC.

Is there anything i ought to look out for or know before i start other than how to put the pipes together? heh.

 

[Jadnashua]

From a health and safety viewpoint, I think you'll want to install a backflow preventer, similar to what is used on a sprinkler system, to prevent any possibility of contaminating your water. CPVC is probably better than PVC, but for cold water might be okay. Neither one likes UV, so depends on if you have windows there...they can get brittle with age and exposure. May not be an issue in a basement. If you use threaded connections, make sure the plastic has the male fitting...you don't want to screw metal into a female fitting.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Axil]

yeah, i was thinking i might need a backflow preventer. Do i need to use threads to go from copper to PVC or can i just use the cement that bonds PVC to other PVC?

Also can i go horizontally with a T intersection or do i have to go vertical and use an elbow? I don't see why i would need to do that except looking to my basement pipes every single offshoot seems to shoot off at the top, then turn to go where it needs to go.

 

[Axil]

having looked at the pricing on back flow preventers... good lord, they cost more than all the rest of my piping combined. I don't need anything fancy, is there anything i can get that'll work for 10-20$?

 

[Terry]

Can you post a link to the product you are connecting?
It may help determine if you need a backflow device.

 

[Axil]

I'm having a hard time finding somthing but it's not really anything too complicated. I'm branching off water line that's going into my washing machine. I'm converting it to PVC. Then i'm installing a bunch of pipe saddles in the PVC pipe, each saddle contains a little pressure valve that allows my rabbits to push on them and drink.

 

[export]

Couldn't you just have a holding tank that you fill up when needed? You would still have a water line to this, but would only turn it on when the rabbit water tower needed to be filled. I am sure you visit them almost daily so it wouldn't mean anymore trips and then you wouldn't need to worry about any sort of backflow.

 

[Jadnashua]

I don't know if one is required, but how much is your health worth? An animal could contaminate not only your water, but potentially the whole neighborhood's. Need some more info to be sure.

 

[dwpecksr]

kansas master plumber

All you need to do is connect your copper to a silcock (hose bib), then screw a $5.00 vacumn breaker to it then a hose thread to female thread and use a brass to CPVC male adapter and make your connections There is a glue 3/4 cpvc to pvc adapter if you insist on using pvc.

 

[Axil]

Couldn't you just have a holding tank that you fill up when needed? You would still have a water line to this, but would only turn it on when the rabbit water tower needed to be filled. I am sure you visit them almost daily so it wouldn't mean anymore trips and then you wouldn't need to worry about any sort of backflow.

That might work but i'm not sure that would give the valves that dispense the water enough pressure.

I'm not opposed to putting in a backflow preventer, i just want to know what i actually need. if you google backflow preventer you get a bunch of adds for valves that cost anywhere between 50-200$, i really don't think that it could possibly be that complicated and exspensive to do what i want to do.

Would this work? *edit*

er... guess i'm not allowed to post links, but home depot lists it as a "1/2 In. Threaded Brass Swing Check Valve"

 

[Jadnashua]

Assuming you do need a backflow preventer, no, it is not the same as a check valve, although that is part of the thing. The backflow preventer should not affect the pressure (much, if any).

 

[Bob NH]

Install a toilet fill valve in a bucket so that it fills the bucket as low as possible. Run the little hose up so the end is above the top of the bucket. The air gap is your back-flow preventer.

Then connect a tube to your watering trough at the elevation corresponding to the control level of the float valve.

The bunnies can drink and you don't have to carry water.

You should have an overflow disposal to sewer setup in case the float valve fails.

You can also use the float valve such as at the link, http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/items/2X768 with the float arm bent so the outlet is above the overflow of the pan to provide the air gap.

Less than $20 for parts and a little ingenuity solves your problem.

 

[hj]

waterer

The good news is that Home Depot will be happy to sell you a vacuum breaker for about $20.00. The bad news is that you cannot use that version for your system. You DO need the expensive one, and if it were inspected you would need the REALLY expensive one. How you run the pipe is immaterial other than that the backflow preventer must be properly oriented for the one you use.

 

[Axil]

I'd really like to avoid having a fill tank. It's one more thing to install, one more thing that might leak, and it takes up space. From what i've read the checkvalve works for backflow prevention, it's just not up to code. If i ever get inspected, which is doubtful all i have to do is unscrew the PVC from the copper to pass, and put it back again later.

The whole basement isn't to code for living space anyway because there's only one escape (the stairs) so i'm not worried about passing inspection, i just want something that works, and the cheapest way that's still effective at stopping backflow. Hell even with the resevior it's not impossible for water to splash back towards the spout, even when you wash your hands you could splash water back in the pipe, paying 100$ for something that's perfect when nothing else in your house really is is superfluous and silly.

 

[Jadnashua]

You say that now before the first doctor's visit or hospital stay...which could easily cost way more than doing it right and safe.

 

[export]

Well another reason you might want a fill tank is so that is the only amount of water that could leak out. The rabbits could chew on your pressure valves or they could fail for some other reason and you would then have a lot more water in the basement.

 

[Axil]

You say that now before the first doctor's visit or hospital stay...which could easily cost way more than doing it right and safe.

You didn't address any of my points. Why is this less safe then anything else i listed. Also, what exactly is it you want me to install? A link would be helpful.

Without getting into a big philosophical debate with you, let me just say that the "safty first" attitude, while good up to a point, can be overdone. I'm not going to eat raw fish out of the amazon river, but i like my steak medium rare. I'm not going to sit on top of a telephone pole in a thunderstorm, but i'm not going to hide under in the basement every time there is a tornado watch.

Finally, i'm willing to find a cheap, and efficient solution to minimize backflow from my waterer, but i'm not spending 100$ to make something completely safe, that was probley a lot safer than using a public restroom to begin with.

The good news is that Home Depot will be happy to sell you a vacuum breaker for about $20.00. The bad news is that you cannot use that version for your system. You DO need the expensive one, and if it were inspected you would need the REALLY expensive one. How you run the pipe is immaterial other than that the backflow preventer must be properly oriented for the one you use.

Why exactly is it i can't use a vacuum breaker.

 

[Axil]

Well another reason you might want a fill tank is so that is the only amount of water that could leak out. The rabbits could chew on your pressure valves or they could fail for some other reason and you would then have a lot more water in the basement.

That would be true if the water didn't feed into the tank automatically. But if i'm filling a tank i'm carrying just as much water around as if i filled the water bottles.. except now it evaporates too. If the tank did fill up to a flout valve, it would keep filling and spilling water out anyway.

The valves are entirely metal anyway though, if anything were to break it'd probley be the seal between the saddle and the PVC

 

[export]

That is why Bob NH said this, "You should have an overflow disposal to sewer setup in case the float valve fails." But yes you would have to deal with evaporation. Damn evaporation, damn you to hell.

Good luck with whatever you decide. And yes those backflow preventers are expensive. I had to replace the one I had for my sprinklers and could not believe the price.

I say switch to pet rocks. They require less maintenance.
Ex

 

[Sjsmithjr]

One option would be to use something like a Watts 9D-M3-1/2'' backflow preventer, which is less than a $100. What you're trying to prevent is a direct connection between the bunny water fountains and your water supply.

Having spent a good bit of time in countries where such knowledge of a proper connection is uncommon, I can assure you that the effect is much less enjoyable that a medium rare steak.

-Sam