I am replacing a pedestal sink with a console sink(3-hole). I am renovating the entire bathroom so I have opened the wall behind the sink and have the opportunity to make changes to the rough-in required for the console sink(exposed drain and supply lines). I have included a picture of the existing plumbing. In order to center the sink on the wall, the drain and supply's all need to move a relatively slight amount. I annotated the picture to show roughly where the new drain and supply need to be. My question is, what is the best way to make these very slight adjustments? Thank You!
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I had to look up what a console sink is.
The supply lines could connect from the existing supply stop positions with flex lines. No problem there functionally, but if that is not acceptable to you, then the supply valves could be moved . The P-trap should have no trouble giving you the drain offset of what, 2 inches? If you want to cause trouble, then use a bottle trap. I suspect that is what you have in mind. Right?
One possiblity would be to put a new santee where it is now but tilted toward the tailpiece. That would allow the bottle trap, but the trap arm would not be at right angles to the wall. Acceptable? If not, yep, you would have to jog the drain and vent a tad.
So the easy way for the slight adjustments are flex supply lines, or chrome supply lines bent to shape, and a chrome P-trap. Acceptable to you?
The supply lines could connect from the existing supply stop positions with flex lines. No problem there functionally, but if that is not acceptable to you, then the supply valves could be moved . The P-trap should have no trouble giving you the drain offset of what, 2 inches? If you want to cause trouble, then use a bottle trap. I suspect that is what you have in mind. Right?
One possiblity would be to put a new santee where it is now but tilted toward the tailpiece. That would allow the bottle trap, but the trap arm would not be at right angles to the wall. Acceptable? If not, yep, you would have to jog the drain and vent a tad.
So the easy way for the slight adjustments are flex supply lines, or chrome supply lines bent to shape, and a chrome P-trap. Acceptable to you?
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Reach4, thanks for your reply - and thanks for posting a good picture of a console sink. Your presumptions are spot-on. Since the drain and supplies are exposed they need to look nice and clean. I will be using rigid brass lines from the shut-off valves up to the sink and need them to run perfectly vertical. And the drain needs to enter the wall perpendicular and plumb. So, what's the best way to make these slight adjustments behind the wall? For the supplies, I could use two 45's but since I am not a plumber, not sure if that's acceptable or if there might be a simpler solution.
Running copper is simple for many. However easier for many is to transition to 1/2 or 3/8 PEX, and connect the pex to drop ear elbows. You would position wood to screw the drop ear elbows to, and position exactly where you want. You would come through the wall with brass nipples.
For the drain, that's trickier. Moving over 1.25 inches is harder than moving over 4 inches. You can use banded couplers to turn the opening on a santee to whatever angle you want. But if you wanted to then jog to perpendicular to the wall, that would be harder. Even a street 45 elbow would probably be farther to the right than you want. A 22.5 might be about right. https://www.supplyhouse.com/sh/control/search/~SEARCH_STRING=22 5 bend Then you put the trap adapter on that, and put on a box escutcheon on to cover the trap adapter.
I would suggest that you get a laser level to make measuring easier. I have the Johnson Level 40-0921. It uses a pendulum with a mirror.
For the drain, that's trickier. Moving over 1.25 inches is harder than moving over 4 inches. You can use banded couplers to turn the opening on a santee to whatever angle you want. But if you wanted to then jog to perpendicular to the wall, that would be harder. Even a street 45 elbow would probably be farther to the right than you want. A 22.5 might be about right. https://www.supplyhouse.com/sh/control/search/~SEARCH_STRING=22 5 bend Then you put the trap adapter on that, and put on a box escutcheon on to cover the trap adapter.
I would suggest that you get a laser level to make measuring easier. I have the Johnson Level 40-0921. It uses a pendulum with a mirror.
Cacher_Chick
Test, Don't Guess!
Such a small adjustment of the drain and vent is problematic. 1/16 bends, with one of them being a street bend is the minimum offset you are going to get.
FullySprinklered
In the Trades
There's a good deal of flexibility built into sink drain connections. It's there for a reason. It's to keep the plumber from choking the customer to death with his bare hands. Listen, the p-trap will rotate to align with the tee in the wall. Also, there are metal supply tubes that can be bent with a special tool to scoot things over an inch or two to line up with the supply lines/stops already in the wall.
FullySprinklered
In the Trades
By the way, the wallpaper sucks.
Except for a bottle trap.
FullySprinklered
In the Trades
Thirty years ago my master plumber ex-brother in law loaned me a plumbing book. In the book were pictures of several traps that had been left in the dust bin of plumbing history. One picture showed a bottle trap with a red circle around it with a diagonal line through the picture. There was text telling why the bottle trap was one of the least desirable options. Bottle traps ain't even on my radar.
FullySprinklered
In the Trades
It's whatever you want, all said and done. Just a lot of trouble. Yes, moving things just a little bit is more difficult than moving things several inches.
Cacher_Chick
Test, Don't Guess!
Except for a bottle trap.
Not permitted under the codes I am familiar with.
I think they are permitted where the hidden part is plastic.
http://helptopics.us.kohler.com/link/portal/5641/5712/Article/888/Bottle-Trap-Drain
http://helptopics.us.kohler.com/link/portal/5641/5712/Article/888/Bottle-Trap-Drain
Cacher_Chick
Test, Don't Guess!
The entire trap must be no less than the full pipe diameter, and it must be self-scouring. I believe this is why a bottle trap is not permitted.
FullySprinklered
In the Trades
It's a little swamp in a bottle.
Thanks cacher-chick! Can you expand on "1/16 bends" and "street bend" for the non-plumber?
Edit - never mind. Figured out that it's a connector with a bend slighter than 22 1/2 degrees.
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360 degrees / 16 = 22.5 degrees.
Street bend has a socket on one end, and a piece that would glue into a socket on the other.
FullySprinklered
In the Trades
but....
The Monk thing hit my funny bone like a ton of lead.
Obsessive, or bottle?
Would code allow me to install the santee with the drain outlet pointing almost exactly backwards away from the wall and connect a return bend angled towards the desired outlet point in the wall? First drawing is side view. Second drawing (yes, it's terrible) is looking straight down from above.
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I had thought your picture with the word SANTEE was looking down from above. If that is a side view, you cannot do what you propose. Your lines need to be horizontal (except for 1/4 per ft slope) until you get to the santee. Even if that was a top view, it may not have been permissible, and even if permissible, there would probably be a better way.
I think you need to define the problem better. For example, say that you want to have a 1-1/4 trap adapter centered 1.23 inches to the right of the centerline of the current drain and vent lines.
You could get the vent and drain offset by going high enough and low enough. You might be able to keep the drain centerlines as they are. I think you should buy some pieces for mockups. You could ream out a plastic trap to let street elbows/bends fit in for sizing without being glued. You could buy 2 or more of them and actually glue 45 and 90 degree street elbows in for mockup testing. Or just shove the pieces in part way, and compensate for the fact that the glued in pieces will seat farther in.
If you think the 22.5 degree (1/16 bend) as I drew would extend too far into the room and would not be covered with a nice box escutcheon, what about 45 or even 90 degrees? Measure what you need.
Do you have a basement or crawl space?
I think you need to define the problem better. For example, say that you want to have a 1-1/4 trap adapter centered 1.23 inches to the right of the centerline of the current drain and vent lines.
You could get the vent and drain offset by going high enough and low enough. You might be able to keep the drain centerlines as they are. I think you should buy some pieces for mockups. You could ream out a plastic trap to let street elbows/bends fit in for sizing without being glued. You could buy 2 or more of them and actually glue 45 and 90 degree street elbows in for mockup testing. Or just shove the pieces in part way, and compensate for the fact that the glued in pieces will seat farther in.
If you think the 22.5 degree (1/16 bend) as I drew would extend too far into the room and would not be covered with a nice box escutcheon, what about 45 or even 90 degrees? Measure what you need.
Do you have a basement or crawl space?
