Help me Determine the Best Softener for my Home Please. :)

[JohnFromOKC]

I've been researching for a couple of weeks, and sorting through the massive amount of information on water softeners available. Here's my information about my home and water:

Home:

About 2600 FT2.
4 people - me, wife and 2 college kids.
3 full baths
2 propane water heaters, one 50 gallon, one 40 gallon.
High efficiency washer.
Standard dishwasher.

All family members are conservation minded concerning water usage. We do sometimes have overnight guests. I do not know how much water each person uses daily, but would guess on the low side of average.

Well Water: Sample taken from untreated faucet. Test done by local pool supply. I have a sample submitted to Oklahoma State University Extension office. Should have it back in about ten days. Also awaiting sampling bottles from Oklahoma Department of Environmental quality for bacteria and metals testing.

PH 7.4
Total alkalinity 290 ppm.
Calcium Hardness 220 ppm.
Total dissolved solids 600 ppm.
Iron 0.

I'm reasonably familiar with water testing as I am in the HVAC hydronic heating and cooling industry - boilers, chillers and cooling towers. The pool supply tests came out similar to my own tests I performed, which was total alkalinity, PH and TDS. I came up with 325 ppm TA and 700 TDS. PH was exactly the same at 7.4. I don't do water testing very often, so I would bet the pool supply was more accurate than me.

I will do the installation myself, so I am looking for a product that is dependable and will be supported in the years ahead if repair parts are required.

Thanks!

John

 

[Reach4]

http://www.qualitywaterassociates.com/sizing.php says 1.5 cubic ft of resin is enough for your 12.8 grains of hardness,. That corresponds to a 10x54 inch tank. That is a nice form factor IMO. Without chlorine, 8% crosslinked resin would be good.

Fleck has not announced any end of life on the 5600SXT, and they allow sellers to sell and ship softeners and parts to you, so far.

That's a nice pH you have. Softening will not have much effect on TDS, since it is exchanging ions rather than removing. Without iron, you might choose to run unsoftened water to the kitchen cold for drinking and houseplant watering. The salt of softened water is not usually a problem for sodium, but the calcium and magnesium give you a little mineral water effect.

Edit: My comment on your hardness was based on guessing that "Calcium Hardness 220 ppm." was a reference to total hardness, and that the actual printout said something like CaCO3 (calcium carbonate) equivalent hardness or some other wording. If that is not the case, calcium is only one part of hardness. Expressing hardness as calcium carbonate equivalent is pretty common. It it would be best to get the report from the university test before selecting equipment, presuming that will test for hardness. You should get a Hach 5-B hardness test. That will let you do your own hardness test, and it will be useful to check the performance of your softener later.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Bannerman]

The hardness quantity you need to establish is total hardness not just calcium hardness. Pool treatment usually focuses on scale buildup so calcium is their primary concern whereas a water softener will be removing both calcium and magnesium.

 

[JohnFromOKC]

The hardness quantity you need to establish is total hardness not just calcium hardness. Pool treatment usually focuses on scale buildup so calcium is their primary concern whereas a water softener will be removing both calcium and magnesium.

What is the difference in total hardness and total alkalinity?

 

[Reach4]

What is the difference in total hardness and total alkalinity?

Practical answer: total hardness is the one you pay attention to. What follows may or may not be interesting, but it is not going to help you shop or setup your softener I suspect.

I had thought that pH sounded similar to alkalinity. You need to pay attention to that too, and yours is pretty much in the middle of the good range. But alkalinity is not that either. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alkalinity So there would be some relationship to hardness, in that calcium carbonate, and magnesium carbonate, the major hardness contributors, are good at buffering the pH, and causing you to need more acid than if the pH was caused by sodium hydroxide or other strong base/alkali.

Alkalinity is a measure of how much acid it will take to reduce the pH number. It might be useful in computing how much acid to use to bring down the pH for well sanitizing, but it is easier to just use pH test strips to measure, and to

https://terrylove.com/forums/index....izing-extra-attention-to-4-inch-casing.65845/
is my write-up on sanitizing a well water system without pellets. The Morovec method is the main writeup. But rather than trying to predict how much vinegar to use, I think the pH strips are better. To predict, you would have to consider alkalinity in the computation. I would use the Morovec prediction as a starting point, but I had to add significantly more. My Alkalinity is 244 mg/L (which is the same a ppm).

 

[JohnFromOKC]

I'm learning all I possibly can about softeners and the related water chemistry. It's a bit different than the water analysis and treatment for chillers, cooling towers and boilers. All we care about is preventing corrosion and scale in the most economical way possible. Some facilities use huge commercial water softeners for their boiler and domestic water heating, and it does extend the life of the heat exchange equipment. I leave the water treatment end of that business to the water treatment guys that visit once a month. It is definitely fun and interesting learning about this. I'm kinda geeky like that.

 

[PumpMd]

This kit is more affordable than the bigger one I showed you

http://www.hach.com/total-hardness-test-kit-model-5-b/product?id=7640219508

 

[ditttohead]

In the most economical way possible? I have run million square foot facilities with dozens of steam boilers, huge chillers, massive heat systems, and "most economical way possible" was never in our vocabulary. The cost of the employees to maintain and operate the equipment and the capitol investment made using the right chemicals and treatment methods far more important than the perceived cost of treatment. A simple tube failure could cost more than many years worth of chemicals. Not to mention the liability and potential for death should a catastrophic failure occur. I have been involved in multiple investigations on equipment failures that caused death or major injury. All were by companies trying to be "economical" Just a thought.

(1) Water heater explosion, restaurant employee was told to fix the leak on the water heater rather than have a plumber come out to save the service call. Employee removed the P&T and plugged the hole with a galvanized plug. You can guess what happened shortly thereafter.
(2) 8" Desal Membrane vessel failure, unqualified employee was attempting to fix a leak on a pressurized 1000 PSI vessel, the end cap released while under pressure crushing the employees skull.
(3) Steam boiler tube failure, 2nd and 3rd degree burns causing long term damage to arms, face. chest. Company attempted to do their own chemical treatment in an effort to cut cost. The lack of knowledge or qualified operators caused improper control of chemicals resulting in excessive corrossion...
For more great stories come to one of our training seminars! lol

Moral of the story, stop looking for ways to be the cheapest. look for ways to improve the quality. Taking a product or process and running it to the lowest bidder in China has become the norm, time to rethink how we do things around here. Stop racing to the bottom.

 

[ditttohead]

This kit is more affordable than the bigger one I showed you

http://www.hach.com/total-hardness-test-kit-model-5-b/product?id=7640219508

Best kit ever!

 

[JohnFromOKC]

In the most economical way possible? I have run million square foot facilities with dozens of steam boilers, huge chillers, massive heat systems, and "most economical way possible" was never in our vocabulary. The cost of the employees to maintain and operate the equipment and the capitol investment made using the right chemicals and treatment methods far more important than the perceived cost of treatment. A simple tube failure could cost more than many years worth of chemicals. Not to mention the liability and potential for death should a catastrophic failure occur. I have been involved in multiple investigations on equipment failures that caused death or major injury. All were by companies trying to be "economical" Just a thought.

(1) Water heater explosion, restaurant employee was told to fix the leak on the water heater rather than have a plumber come out to save the service call. Employee removed the P&T and plugged the hole with a galvanized plug. You can guess what happened shortly thereafter.
(2) 8" Desal Membrane vessel failure, unqualified employee was attempting to fix a leak on a pressurized 1000 PSI vessel, the end cap released while under pressure crushing the employees skull.
(3) Steam boiler tube failure, 2nd and 3rd degree burns causing long term damage to arms, face. chest. Company attempted to do their own chemical treatment in an effort to cut cost. The lack of knowledge or qualified operators caused improper control of chemicals resulting in excessive corrossion...
For more great stories come to one of our training seminars! lol

Moral of the story, stop looking for ways to be the cheapest. look for ways to improve the quality. Taking a product or process and running it to the lowest bidder in China has become the norm, time to rethink how we do things around here. Stop racing to the bottom.

I'm well aware of all those types of stories. Economical doesn't mean low bid. It's not economical to foul heat exchangers or fail to hire qualified, well trained technicians and to skip out on continuing education for those technicians. What you just described was management incompetence, not economical, well managed operations.

 

[ditttohead]

Bean counters, aren't they the best. Guys who look at a spreadsheet and show how money can be saved... move the manufacturing over to China, the labor is cheap and they have no enforced Environmental Health or Safety laws. We can hire guys for half the price, its only a steam boiler... yikes. Fortunately that is the exception, not the rule. And since management is typically held responsible the same as the employee they hired... keeps them on their game.

Unfortunately, I have had to deal with these issues too many times. In the US, when a workplace injury or death occurs, it is taken seriously. In many other countries, it is ignored, the worker is replaced or fired, or a short investigation takes place and nothing changes. We have done many metallurgical tests on "Lead Free Brass" components and have found that they were actually high lead. Someone in China simply stamped LF on the brass part. The manufacturers basically say that if we dont want it, too bad. They are not going to actually fix the product.
Try that in the US, you will be out of business before the end of the day.