Help! Keep having to reset pressure switch!

[Frank Rocha]

Our current setup up is a submersible pump feeding a 3,000 storage tank, and a booster pump between the storage tank and the pressure tank. About a year ago, we replaced a HUGE galvanized pressure tank (it was about 10 feet tall) with an Amtrol WellXTrol (WX-350). Everything was great for about 6 months, then something odd started to happen. About a half dozen times now, for no apparent reason, under various conditions (nothing consistent), we will notice we have no water! It never cuts out mid-stream or when we have water running. It's might be when we get home from dinner. Or, first thing in the morning. Or in the middle of the day. With no other water running, we turn on a faucet and nothing! I walk out to the well and the pressure gauge reads "0"PSI. I slightly move the toggle on the side of the pressure switch and the gauge immediately snaps up to 70PSI and everything is fine. To be clear, there is NO ramp up of pressure, the gauge snaps immediately to its high pressure reading and everything works fine. It is as though it "thinks" it has zero pressure but in fact it is fully pressurized? I believe our switch is set to 50/70 as the well is quite a distance from our home. We have had the switch replaced 3 times, most recently a month ago (thinking it is a bad pressure switch?) and it happened again yesterday. The switch is brand new and clean (no bugs or debris in it). I drained the pressure tank and put an air gauge on it and it read 45PSI so I don't think it is a bladder problem. Any ideas? I've had two different well companies look at it and both are baffled? Could it be electrical?

 

[Valveman]

Not possible. If there is no water coming out of the faucets at the house, you cannot have 70 PSI in the tank. So when you flip the low pressure toggle on the side of the pressure switch and the pressure immediately goes to 70, the pressure tank must be waterlogged. If you were really at zero pressure, it should take a minute or two to put 35 gallons in that WX350 before the pressure would get to 70 PSI. Check to make sure you are getting about 35 gallons out of that tank as the pressure decreases from 70 to 50.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Reach4]

I suggest that you post a photo that includes the pressure switch, the input to the pressure tank, and the line from storage tank.

 

[LLigetfa]

Check to make sure you are getting about 35 gallons out of that tank as the pressure decreases from 70 to 50.

I agree with doing the drawdown test. A chunk of the busted bladder can plug the outlet of the tank like a flapper valve so a simple pressure gauge on the air valve is inconclusive.

 

[Frank Rocha]

Thanks! That makes perfect sense to me now that I think about it. If I have not water, there cannot be any pressure in the pressure tank. It's working fine now. In the morning, I'll close the shut-offs on either side of the pressure tank and test the air pressure. Then I'll purge the tank and measure the volume of water. Then test the pressure with the tank empty. Here is a picture of the switch as it was it appeared when we had no water, and the setup.

 

[LLigetfa]

Not likely to be the source of your problem but the wire colour sequence is not right. The switch should connect same to same, not black to white.

 

[Reach4]

G is your gauge. E is the pressure switch. The pressure switch should be closer to B or D. That could be related to the cutout. It could not be related to the pressure gauge going to zero, I don't think. When the water pressure is higher than the air precharge pressure, the air pressure will be very close to the water pressure. That can be useful in comparing calibration of the water pressure gauge and the air pressure gauge.

You could go to a pressure switch that does not have a lever. That would solve your cutout problem, but it would not shut down the pump if the tank runs dry. You could go to another method for that possibly.

A, the pressure tank is 62 inches tall. So your storage tank is massive.

Your PVC should be protected from UV from the sun.

 

[LLigetfa]

If the busted bladder blocks the outlet port of the tank while it is being drawn down when the pump is not running, the pressure will instantly drop to zero not giving the pump a chance to start.

When the low cutoff lever was lifted, the pump immediately came up to pressure because the tank was still full so all it needed to pressurize was the pipe. The bladder flap could be moved by water flowing into the tank and then later find itself over the port again.

 

[Frank Rocha]

So..... if the bladder is ruptured, then when I close the shutoffs and drain the pressure tank, I should get way more than 35gals correct? Gonna go out and give it a try.

 

[Reach4]

So..... if the bladder is ruptured, then when I close the shutoffs and drain the pressure tank, I should get way more than 35gals correct? .

No. It would usually be less than. If the diaphragm failed, it is not like it disappeared. It would be more like there is water on the wrong side of the diaphragm. Just opening the drain is not going to get that water out.

With a good tank, the water will be forced out until the water pressure is down to the precharge level. Then the water flow from the tank would stop.

It is not a bladder for your tank. There are tanks with bladders, but the better ones, like yours, have a diaphragm.

 

[Valveman]

A bad diaphragm/bladder can act like a one way check valve on the inlet to the tank, A piece of broken rubber seals over the hole and won't let water out. But when you try to put water in the tank, there is already 70 PSI on the other side of that flap of rubber. So the tank won't take any water and the pressure instantly hits 70 and the pump shuts off. A WX350 (which the pic doesn't look that big) will hold 119 gallons of water before any will come out of the Schrader valve stem. But none of this water will come out of the faucet or the tank outlet even after removing the inlet pipe. Normally have to drill a hole in the side of the tank, make a mess, and get wet to get that 119 gallons out of a waterlogged tank.

 

[Frank Rocha]

OK, here are the results of my test. Fully charged pressure tank and the inlet and outlet shut off and power turned off, the pressure gauge reads 70psi and the pressure tank must be close as my gauge only goes to 60psi and needle was well beyond the 60 indicator. I drain the water and the pressure gauge reads "0" and the pressure tank is at 45psi. I then turn everything back on and booster pump kicks on and the pressure gauge needle immediately jumps to 45 or 50psi and slowly makes it way back up to 70 and shuts off. Here is what is interesting, when I purged the pressure tank when it was fully pressurized and only got about 18 gallons of drawdown before the water stopped flowing. Shouldn't I have gotten about 35gals?

 

[Frank Rocha]

OK, so just got off the phone with Amtrol tech support. Really no help at all. Said I should be getting about 25 gals drawdown when I drain the WX-350. He asked if I had a check valve between the big storage tank and the booster pump. Told him I don't know? He said to be sure I have one and also to see what the "cutoff" psi is on the pressure switch. Said it should be about 10psi. Anyway the well guy is coming out tomorrow to look at it?

 

[Valveman]

Just did the math. A wx350 with 45 PSI air and a 50/70 switch should have 28.1 gallons of draw down. If you only get 18 that probably means you have 10 gallons above the diaphragm where it shouldn't be.

 

[Texas Wellman]

Sure it's not a different model no?

 

[Valveman]

Sure it's not a different model no?

I agree it doesn't look like a 350.

 

[Frank Rocha]

 

[Frank Rocha]

Just did the math. A wx350 with 45 PSI air and a 50/70 switch should have 28.1 gallons of draw down. If you only get 18 that probably means you have 10 gallons above the diaphragm where it shouldn't be.

How do you do the calculations?

 

[Valveman]

How do you do the calculations?

I have an easy calculator here.
http://www.cyclestopvalves.com/runtime_app.php

 

[Frank Rocha]

I have an easy calculator here.
http://www.cyclestopvalves.com/runtime_app.php

Thanks!!!