HELP GUYS !!! Air in lines: bad tank ? crack in supply line ?

[JimPlumbs]

Ok guys, here is the deal:

Recently moved into house built in '06 and not too familiar with a well set-up so excuse the ignorance.

A few weeks ago we started to notice air coming through the lines at the end of the toilet fill cycle, all toilets has same problem on the first and second floors. It seems to have progressively gotten worse and now is at all sinks when first turning on water. While the pressure does seem somewhat weak it is not noticeably that bad. After tons of different advice from 'not so professional' friends I thought that the expansion tank on the water heater may be bad? I was just planning on replacing it because it sounded pretty dense when tapping on it, not hollow as I would have expected.

We had a bunch of rain for a few days (not sure if this affects well pressure) and during this time I noticed that when the well tank turned on the pipes hammered loud. I watched the pressure guage and during that time it would kick on at about 20psi and stop at 40. With only one shower running upstairs the pressure would drop in about 2 minutes back to 20 and kick on again loudly. I again talked to some 'not so professional' people who advised me that the pressure tank was likely bad.

I gave it a day and ran the shower upstairs, went down to the basement to check the pressure and noticed that now the switch appeared to be working properly (it is a 30/50). The pipes were not hammering that loud when the well pump came on but it was still only holding pressure for a minute or two with the shower on. I still have air in all lines. I have loaded a video here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOm93l82xb4

The tank is a WX-203 by WellXTrol, build date of '05 and just out of warranty. My question is, what could be going on ? does the pressure tank seem bad ? Could it be something more concerning in the well pump lines ? Is the air in the sink/toilet lines unrelated ?

As a side note, it appears that one of my outdoor hose bibs is bad also. I went to turn it on and I get just a small trickle of water, the other hose bib is good. I am assuming this is just a bad valve but in case it could be related I wanted to mention it.

Thanks so much for your time !

 

[WellWaterProducts]

It sounds like the check valve at your well tank is good but water is draining back to the well.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Where is the pump? I'm going with a leaking pitless adapter.

 

[JimPlumbs]

The pump is 200ft underground as far as I know...how do I test this ? Where is the pitless adapter and check valves ?

 

[WellWaterProducts]

The best diagram in our industry is at http://www.campbellmfg.com/products/wellsystem.htm

 

[Justwater]

i think the other guys have got u covered on the air issue. aside from the air in lines, you need to check the precharge in your tank, because your pump doesnt run even close to long enough.. and that was with a shower running?

hey valveman... i know i dont have to ask, but what should he consider?

 

[JimPlumbs]

Yep, just one shower, nothing else. Tire guage at the schrader valve to check the precharge ? Do I need to drain the tank first ? I'm comfortable with anything inside the house, its when we move outdoors that I will have to make the dreaded call. I'm hoping this is something I can take care of on my own...with help from the forum of course

 

[Valveman]

hey valveman... i know i dont have to ask, but what should he consider?

LOL! Now what would I recommend to stop a pump from cycling itself to death like that? Could it be a Cycle Stop Valve? Nothing wrong with your tank, that is just the way old type pressure tank only systems work. They cycle on and off until something or everything breaks. The air is probably caused by a bad check valve in the well. And the bad check valve was caused by cycling. I think you have another check valve above ground, which is holding, and letting air in the drop pipe, especially when the pump is off for a while.

Remove the above ground check valve. If the pressure leaks back when no water is being used, then you will have to pull the pump and replace the check valve at the bottom, and maybe a leaky pipe as well.

After the air problem is fixed, you can install a Cycle Stop Valve (probably in the same place you removed the above ground check valve). Then the short cycling will go away, and you will have no more problems with check valves going bad, bladder in the tank bursting, or cycling your pump to death.

 

[WellWaterProducts]

@JimPlumbs- any answers yet?

 

[LLigetfa]

Is there any sort of air injection system for quality abatement? How about a snifter/bleeder setup for an old style bladderless tank? I had a neighbor that used a bladder tank instead of a proper precipitation tank for his iron filter and the air had nowhere else to go but through to the taps. His solution was to do a manual backwash on the iron filter which of course would purge the air from the media tank but it didn't take long before the tank was so full with air that it would force through again.

 

[Billfig]

Where is the pump? I'm going with a leaking pitless adapter.

I had the plastic barb/nipple crack on mine...what a PITA! I put a brass one on...then last week when replacing the "other end" including tank, I replaced the other plastic one with a brass one. Sure, costs like 5-7x but well worth it..pun intended! LOL