Help! Advice on whole house filtration and water softener system

Discussion in 'Water Softener Forum, Questions and Answers' started by Metal, Oct 26, 2018.

  1. Metal

    Metal New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2018
    Location:
    Kansas
    So I have been doing a lot of research into what system is best to replace the current iron and water softener we have in our house. Needless to say, each system has its pros and cons. We are on a well. Our water is actually pretty good, we get an occasional "metallic" musty smell to it but I think its because our water softener is failing. Some slight discoloration in the toilet tanks. Clothes are fine, no red or brown discoloration. Anyways, here is what I currently have installed from 2004:

    CURRENT EQUIPMENT:
    1. Culligan Gold Series Soft water Unit, 55" high, 10" wide (starting to fail)
    2. Culligan Automatic Iron Filter (Iron Cleer) Two Units 53" high, 12 " wide (system is broken, not plugged in and has not run in 4+ years)

    WATER TEST RESULTS:
    Iron 0.405 mg/l (.403 ppm)
    Manganese 0.247 mg/l (.247 ppm)
    Hardness 110 mg/l (6.4 grams per gallon)
    PH 7.1
    Turbidity 1.4 NTM
    Well Pump Test results: 10.3 ppm flow rate

    The house has 6 bathrooms and 4 people (2 adults, 2 kids). We hardly ever run two showers at the same time. Maybe sometimes the washer runs while we take a shower (probably 80 gall/person a day).

    REPLACEMENT EQUIPMENT:
    1. For the water softener, looking at getting the following unit:
    Fusion NLT Professional Grade Metered Water Softener from USWater Systems
    Price is $1395. SKU 086-FNLT
    Unit looks robust and i like the control panel option on it.
    Any other ideas??

    As far as the iron removal, not sure where to go and what system to get and this is where I REALLY NEED SOME GUIDANCE.

    1. Hydrogen Peroxide Systems
    Im a little weary of these systems and really don't want to spend $400 a year for the 30-40 gallons of hydrogen peroxide refills. Don't really want the hassle either and not really sure our water is that bad that I need a system like this.

    2. Katalox Lite
    Thought this may be my answer but then read a ton of reviews mentioning that Katalox Lite is not doing as well as was initially expected. Also many reports of PH skyrocketing after install as well as increased odors in the water. Wary of the mixed results and negative reviews in forums.

    3. Pyrolox
    From my research, it appears to take an extreme amount of GPM to backwash effectively. Not crazy about wasting that much water and resources and Im limited to 10 ppm with my well pump. Also not effective in lower PH applications.

    4. Terminox ISM
    From budget water.com. They say its a better media than straight Pyrolox systems but who knows.

    Possible idea:
    I liked the Pro Ox Iron Filter systems 5900 but this may just be a Pyrolox system requiring continual backwash and like I mentioned, my well only puts out 10 gpm.

    https://www.cleanwaterstore.com/pro...-ox-iron-filter-5900-bt-20-cf-1252-12x52.html

    Overall, Im planning on avoiding Greensand or Birm systems. Also a little leary of a system with a chlorine additive.

    Any other ideas would be appreciated!!
     
  2. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2013
    Location:
    IL
    Pretty expensive for a Chinese unit and no gravel. You could get a better system for less.

    That sounds like an incredible amount of peroxide. Are you maybe thinking of the diluted stuff in the solution tank which is maybe 1 or gallon of peroxide (H2O2) with the balance of 15 gallons as water? I am not sure of the typical consumption, but your dollar estimate sounds really high.

    If I were getting KL, I would want the controller to come with the provision to add a solution tank to be filled with a "regenerate", which might be H2O2 plus water. If you don't need the regenerate, you don't have to use it. But it would be good in my non-pro opinion. Note that the KL might need more backwashing GPM than you anticipate. For a 10 inch tank you would want about 8 gpm. For a bigger tank, more. For a 12 inch tank would probably want more than 10 gpm.
    img_kl12.png

    Note, however, a 10 gpm pump may deliver 11 or 12 gpm into 30 psi, depending on things.

    It's also possible that your current softener could just be cleaned up. Look for old posts in this forum that mention "iron out".
     
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  4. Bannerman

    Bannerman Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2014
    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    What do you mean when you state the current softener is failing? Does this signify the softener is no longer providing the same quality of soft water as it had previously (hard water leakage) or are there mechanical issues?

    Assuming the softener is downstream of the iron filter, the softener will have been removing all 0.405 ppm of iron for the past 4 years that the iron filter has not been operating. While a softener can be used to remove some iron, the resin and internals will need ongoing periodic maintenance to prevent iron from fouling the resin.

    Periodic cleaning utilizes a quantity of acid resin cleaner such as Iron Out or similar mixed into 1-2 gallons warm water which is then added to the brine tank directly before a manual regeneration cycle is performed. If you haven't done this previously and if your issue is hard water leakage, you may wish to try cleaning to determine if the softener will be more effective. If this has never been done, multiple cleanings may be required. The cleaner will have longer time to work if the softener's incoming water supply is shut off and the power plug is pulled out for 1-2 hrs directly after the cleaner has been drawn into the resin tank from the brine tank.

    Other softener settings usually must be also altered when a softener is required to remove iron.
     
  5. Metal

    Metal New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2018
    Location:
    Kansas


    1. Thanks for the reply
    Thats good info on the US Water Systems NLT Water Softener. Continuing my research, I also liked the 8900E 48K Grain Water Softener from The Clean Water Store. $1629 total. So actually more expensive but may be a better system? I would match it up with their Pro OX 5900 Iron Cleaner.
    https://www.cleanwaterstore.com/hig...oftener-8900e-metered-48k-grain-capacity.html

    2. You are probably right about the peroxide. On the US Water Systems website it says the average family of 4 uses 25-35 gallons a year and they sell two 2.5 gallon 7% peroxide solution jugs for $84. Maybe I misread it and it needs to be diluted with water.

    3. Yes, my old water softener is probably getting fouled up. I'd like to spend the money and just a new system since I know the old owner of the house did not take care of any of the equipment. Kind of want to start over from scratch and do it right.

    Thanks for the response! Really appreciate it
     
  6. Metal

    Metal New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2018
    Location:
    Kansas

    Great info, thanks. Yes, the softener is past the iron cleaner. Its been dealing with the iron for about 4 years now. At this point, Im thinking of starting over with new equipment since I know the old owner of the house never maintained any of the stuff. Kind of want a new start with new stuff at this point.
     
  7. Bannerman

    Bannerman Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2014
    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    On this forum, Fleck and Clack control valves are most recommended. Not sure if the 8900E control valve will be much better than the Fusion valve & controller.

    Due to prior lack of support by online dealers, both Clack and Fleck have adopted selling only through dealers who install and support the products they market. Some of the older Fleck models (ie: 5600SXT) remain available online.
     
  8. Metal

    Metal New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2018
    Location:
    Kansas
    Copy all. I plan to contact the Clean Water Store and ask about the valves and where they are made. I also plan on asking them about the Pro Ox medium they use in their iron cleaner, they say it lasts 10-15 years before having to be replaced.
     
  9. ditttohead

    ditttohead Water systems designer, R&D

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2012
    Occupation:
    Water systems designer, R&D, Technical Director
    Location:
    Ontario California
    I would avoid the majority of online dealers, especially the ones that sell the cheap knock offs since it is likely they may offer a good valve but where do you think the rest of their components come from? This is one of the reasons Fleck and Clack have pushed back against these companies selling their valves. Many online companies simply source all the other components from the lowest bidder then stick a good valve on top. The online resellers are always in a desperate race to the lowest price, at any cost.
     
  10. old

    old Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2016
    Location:
    NE
    The "fusion nlt" is a really a Canature 785, the "8900e" is a Canature 89 series. Both are garbage (the company I work for sells Canature, I am very familiar with them)
     
  11. Metal

    Metal New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2018
    Location:
    Kansas
    Thats good info, thanks. I researched the Clean Water Store and they are about the only online seller that I found was reputable to some degree. They have been in business for 25+ years and actually have excellent customer reviews on other sites not affiliated with them. So thats a good thing. However, I don't know a thing about their valves yet or the quality of their products. I have read your other posts and Im inclined to trust you when you mention that a lot of online sellers are selling crap.

    Sooo..where would you recommend that I can buy Fleck or Clack equipment? Any models you would recommend after seeing my water test results? I plan to self install and have a lot of experience with plumbing. Any help or guidance would be greatly appreciated!

    FYI...I looked at these models and was wondering what you thought??

    1. Pentair Fleck 5800 model with the XTR2 touch screen (really like this unit) $885

    https://www.home-water-purifiers-and-filters.com/softplus-ultimate.php

    2. Fleck 5600 SXT 48K Grain Salt (upgraded to XTR2 scree for $125) Total $876

    https://www.isopurewater.com/Fleck-...rain-Water-Softener-10-x-54-15-CF_p_1000.html
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2018
  12. Metal

    Metal New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2018
    Location:
    Kansas
    Thanks for the info. Wow, not good to hear that, they were my top contenders for water softener and iron filter!!
    If you had the same water test results as me (see first post), what water softener and iron filter model/company would you go with?? Overall, don't really want or need hydrogen peroxide or chlorine line systems. Just want a system with a good medium (Pyrolox etc etc) and a good water softener.
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2018
  13. Bob from accounting

    Bob from accounting Member

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2020
    Location:
    California
    Which system did you end up buying and how has it performed. Any tips since buying your system you can pass along?
    I have been looking at some of those same links you sent. Home Water purifiers....com Could be something I too lean towards.
     
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