HELP - Adding vent to unvented main stack / re do on poorly designed system

Discussion in 'Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice' started by c20j20g, Jan 15, 2020.

  1. c20j20g

    c20j20g New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2020
    Location:
    ny
    Hello and thank you all in advance for the help.

    I recently purchased a home that was "flipped" and the plumbing in my opinion was done by someone who dosn't do plumbing or a fool or maybe im wrong and you guys can let me know.

    First lets start with the configuration - all fixtures are on the first floor / ground level. with the exception of the laundry traY sink pump and main line exit being located in the basement

    2 sinks
    1 tub
    1 toilet
    1 laundry sink ( this sink is below the main line discharge so it is pumped up from a zoeller laundry tray pump)

    The only vents are attached to the UPSTAIRS sinks
    the kitchen sink as a small 1.5 inch (guess) vent off the back which that runs straight up through the roof

    the bathroom has a vent 1.5 (guess) that again runs straight up into the attic which then transitions to a 3 inch that exits the roof

    There is no vent on the main 3 inch line/stack

    The laundry sink pump was vented to the kitchen sink with some creative piping solutions that are not correct but got the pump to function without air locking.

    The toilet is located at the top of the main line

    currently all fixtures T into other 1.5 inch and all terminate in one 1.5 line into the main stack, theses to me seems terrible and not correct at all

    the bath room sink and tub join together into a 1.5 line which then also joins the kitchen sink and again into a 1.5 line. that 1.5 line runs close to the main stack and is join again by the laundry 1.5 line and T's again into a 1.5 line which then runs over to the mainline

    whenever a large amount of water fills any of the 1.5 lines to capacity it causes the toilet to burp / bubble

    IMG_1479.JPG IMG_1481.JPG


    as you can see vertical space is limited and ill have to re do it.

    how should i go about re doing how all the lines tie together and i assume i need to add a vent to the stack.

    my plan for adding a vent is to use the opening seen near the bath sink/ tub connections as there is a straight shot of open cavity that i should be able to access from the attic to tie into that existing bath vent in the attic.

    IMG_1494.JPG

    ignore the "pipe extender" i ll be using an internal coupler to prevent having to dig up the yard and re set a new pipe in the wall
     
  2. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2004
    Occupation:
    Plumber
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    You CANNOT use an "internal coupler" on a drain line. I do not have any "reference point" so I cannot be sure, but your drains and vents look like 2" already. The toilet would only "burp/gurgle" if the main line is obstructed, which would alos be a cause of the drain lines "being full" of water.
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2020
  3. Sponsor

    Sponsor Paid Advertisement

     
  4. c20j20g

    c20j20g New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2020
    Location:
    ny
    ALL LINES ARE 1.5

    I have verified this on the actual line labeling

    if i pour a large amount of water down the kitchen sink as soon as that line fills with water it starts pushing air into the main line with no where for it go but up and out the toilet because there is no other vent i assume.


    i could run any fixture for as long as i please and the lines dont "fill up" but if i empty a 5 gallon bucket into the sink all at once it will make the toilet burp
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2020
  5. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2013
    Location:
    IL
    Pushing air out of the toilet only requires that there be significant blockage at or below the santee below the toilet.

    I suggest you get your septic pumped as an urgent matter. This presumes you have a septic tank. If you have no septic tank, get your sewer rodded. Less urgent, but still a priority action.
     
  6. c20j20g

    c20j20g New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2020
    Location:
    ny
  7. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2013
    Location:
    IL
    That line is not supposed to be full of water.

    If it is full of water, poor flushing and belching air into the toilet bowl is expected.

    Now how should things work? The lavatory and shower waste should join the toilet waste before the laundry waste gets added. Also, your vertical to horizontal pvc pipe should be a long sweep....

    Will it work if you clear the clog, despite not being right to code? Yes. If the blockage is not there, air will go up through that elbow against the arrow you drew, and out the roof.

    So what standard are you looking at? Making it work, or making it work and bringing it up to current code?

    If you have a septic tank, and fiddle around, you could clog up your septic leach field. That would be very expensive to fix. If you pump your septic sooner than it needs, it does not cost much extra. If you put it off too long, there are big consequences. So unless you have reason to know otherwise, I would spend the $250 (or significantly more if you are in a more expensive area) to get the septic pumped now.

    Then do the other stuff, if any, at a more relaxed pace.
     
  8. c20j20g

    c20j20g New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2020
    Location:
    ny
    Thank you for the reply, for the short term i would just like to get the system to function properly, however i am interested in re doing the the design in the future. I will also be getting the septic tank pumped as a precaution.

    I just want to make sure i understand what you are saying.

    You believe that this air burp / bubble issue is cause by the tight 90 degree elbow that transition s from the vertical to horizontal circled below?

    there are 4 other similar 90 degree bends being used as well, should they be replaced as well?

    IMG_1481.JPG
    IMG_1501.JPG
     
  9. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2004
    Occupation:
    Plumber
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    The "Type" of elbow has nothing to do with the system not draining properly.
     
  10. c20j20g

    c20j20g New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2020
    Location:
    ny
    the main 3 inch line has no issue draining, it never fills up with water, so what else is causing air to be pushed up and out of the toilet?

    i only get the burps when too much water is moved at once.

    example being if someone is showering and the laundry tray pump kicks on, ill get a couple burps and then all goes back to normal.

    based on previous responses i would assume this happens when both pipes of water hit that 90 right before the main.
     
  11. James Henry

    James Henry In the Trades

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2019
    Occupation:
    Plumber
    Location:
    Billings, Montana.
    If you have a septic system the very first thing you need to do is clean the filter. It's usually always the filter. Had a friend with the same problem last week. Cleaned the filter. Problem gone.
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2020 at 8:44 AM
Similar Threads: HELP Adding
Forum Title Date
Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice Need Help: Adding plumbing to detached garage Sep 17, 2019
Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice Need help with adding a new sink in basement Sep 16, 2019
Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice Need help adding a laundry room utility sink May 20, 2018
Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice Help: Adding new Utility Sink and Washer Waste Wipe May 22, 2015
Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice Need help with adding tub drain and vent Aug 10, 2014

Share This Page