Heavy rust stains after well pump replacement

Users who are viewing this thread

Leo1

Member
Messages
32
Reaction score
2
Points
8
Location
Milwaukee
Hi Everyone,

The well pump was replaced several months ago and soon after that we got terrible rust stains in sink, tub and toilet. The interesting thing is that the stain in one toilet seems to be less visible than in another one. The water has noticeable metallic smell but it seems clear (if to look in the glass).

What could cause the change in the water quality? Is it a problem with the well pump installation or old pipes, etc.?

I would like to ask for advise on how to approach this problem.

Thanks in advance!

Leo
 

Reach4

Well-Known Member
Messages
38,858
Reaction score
4,428
Points
113
Location
IL
I would like to ask for advise on how to approach this problem.
I don't know the why except that it is common for well work to stir up sediment.

So the question is how to deal with the iron. If it is just sediment with rust particles, in the toilet, maybe cleaning out what is there could get you back to about where you were before. For the iron in the toilet, I suggest Super Iron Out. It is pretty widely available. It does not smell that good, but it beats some other stuff. The weather is pretty nice, so open a window and close the bathroom door. If the problem is a ring at the water line, a Pummie bran pumice stick can be good for taking off the ring.

From the well, I would get a lab water test to see what you are dealing with. I like kit 90 from http://www.karlabs.com/watertestkit/

Depending on what you find, a backwashing iron+H2S+etc filter may a nice solution. That could be followed by a softener. Yep, talking some significant money.

I also like sanitizing after well work. http://www.terrylove.com/forums/ind...izing-extra-attention-to-4-inch-casing.65845/ is my write-up on that.
 

Leo1

Member
Messages
32
Reaction score
2
Points
8
Location
Milwaukee
I don't know the why except that it is common for well work to stir up sediment.

The pump was replaced more than 6 months ago so I do not think this is the case.

From the well, I would get a lab water test to see what you are dealing with. I like kit 90 from http://www.karlabs.com/watertestkit/
http://www.karlabs.com/watertestkit/Thanks for the link. I will order this test and then post the results. But it does not contain test for iron bacteria. Do you think it should be done as well? Any other tests?
 

Reach4

Well-Known Member
Messages
38,858
Reaction score
4,428
Points
113
Location
IL
Do you think it should be done as well?
I have been thinking that in a place with significant iron, and where the well has not been sanitized recently, that the test would be positive. I don't have an explanation for "recent". :)Somebody may have a better insight.
 

Leo1

Member
Messages
32
Reaction score
2
Points
8
Location
Milwaukee
I have been thinking that in a place with significant iron, and where the well has not been sanitized recently, that the test would be positive. I don't have an explanation for "recent". :)Somebody may have a better insight.
The well was sanitized immediately after the pump installation.
 

ditttohead

Water systems designer, R&D
Messages
6,091
Reaction score
456
Points
83
Location
Ontario California
Get the test, IRB is fairly obvious, open the toilet tank, clean it thoroughly, then go back to it a month later and see if it is slimy/red.
 

Leo1

Member
Messages
32
Reaction score
2
Points
8
Location
Milwaukee
Hi All,

I've received water test results.

The water contains IRB: 2200 CFU's/ml.

I also ordered two tests from the karlab.com, one from the pressure tank tap and another from the sink in the bathroom (after a softener):

Total iron (pressure tank tap): 0.41 mg/L
Total iron (sink): 0.13 mg/L

Both full reports are attached.

What are my options in this situation?


Thanks in advance.

Leo
 

Attachments

  • pressure_tank.pdf
    172.5 KB · Views: 264
  • sink.pdf
    172.4 KB · Views: 284

ditttohead

Water systems designer, R&D
Messages
6,091
Reaction score
456
Points
83
Location
Ontario California
Agreed. You need to put enough chlorine into the system to raise the Chlorine PPM level to 50-100 and let it sit in the pipes for several hours. I have recently written an article discussing these issues, once it is finalized I can post it here.

Completely sanitize the entire system and retest a couple weeks later.

What water treatment do you currently have in place?
 

Leo1

Member
Messages
32
Reaction score
2
Points
8
Location
Milwaukee
Agreed. You need to put enough chlorine into the system to raise the Chlorine PPM level to 50-100 and let it sit in the pipes for several hours. I have recently written an article discussing these issues, once it is finalized I can post it here.

Completely sanitize the entire system and retest a couple weeks later.

What water treatment do you currently have in place?
Water softener only. Please, post the article.
 

Reach4

Well-Known Member
Messages
38,858
Reaction score
4,428
Points
113
Location
IL
Can it permanently solve the issue or does sanitizing need to be performed on regular basis?
I don't know if there is a single answer. I am thinking every 2 years, but maybe it will last considerably longer if I do a good enough job.

The reason I am not sure is that IRB and SRB can live in the aquifer I think. They are slow growing. They can also be introduced when well work is done, and other things can be introduced during plumbing work potentially.
 

Cacher_Chick

Test, Don't Guess!
Messages
5,458
Reaction score
213
Points
63
Location
Land of Cheese
What kind of pressure tank is installed? On a standard tank it is not uncommon for the iron to collect in the bottom of the tank, where it can eventually fill the bottom of the tank.
 

Reach4

Well-Known Member
Messages
38,858
Reaction score
4,428
Points
113
Location
IL
What kind of pressure tank is installed? On a standard tank it is not uncommon for the iron to collect in the bottom of the tank, where it can eventually fill the bottom of the tank.
Good point. Normally a faucet is placed at the tank connection that lets you drain off rust and other sediment. It is good to turn off the pump and open that valve periodically. Seeing what comes out when you do that could help you decide how often to do that.
 

Leo1

Member
Messages
32
Reaction score
2
Points
8
Location
Milwaukee
What kind of pressure tank is installed? On a standard tank it is not uncommon for the iron to collect in the bottom of the tank, where it can eventually fill the bottom of the tank.
Water Worker 86 Gallon from Menards
 

ditttohead

Water systems designer, R&D
Messages
6,091
Reaction score
456
Points
83
Location
Ontario California
Rough Draft

Common Terms

Total organic carbon (TOC) is the amount of carbon found in water and is used as a non-specific indicator of water quality/contamination.

Total Coliform is a common group of bacteria present all around us, which are usually not dangerous to human health.

E. coli primarily come from the feces of warm blooded animals. The presence of E. coli indicates that the water has potentially been exposed to fecal material and an immediate risk to human health exists.

Chlorine or Chloramine is added to municipal water to reduce the levels of bacterial growth while the water travels through the distribution system. The level of residual chlorine/chloramine is typically sufficient only to maintain a disinfected water supply. Not to rectify contamination issues. Drinking water, like every other substance, contains small amounts of bacteria. Most of these bacteria are generally not harmful.

What are coliform bacteria? Coliform bacteria are common in the environment and are unlikely to cause illness. However, their presence in drinking water indicates that disease-causing organisms (pathogens) could be in the water system. Testing drinking water for all possible pathogens is complex, time-consuming, extremely expensive and usually unnecessary. It is simple to test for E. coli and coliform bacteria. If only coliform bacteria is found in drinking water, the source is probably environmental and fecal contamination is unlikely. It is important to find and resolve the source of the contamination.

What if my water tests positive for coliform bacteria? The cause of the contamination must be determined and steps should be taken to prevent a future recurrence. Common causes include new construction plumbing that was improperly sanitized after start-up, dead legs (areas of non-use) or plumbing systems with low or no flow/velocity, unsanitary operation or maintenance of filtration equipment, infrequent filter change-outs or lack of intermittent sanitization procedures and much more. Water temperature plays an important role in bacterial incidences as shown in the chart below. Water filters should never be installed in a “warm” location without considerable consideration and regularly scheduled sanitization procedures. Installing a water filtration device in an enclosed space with a refrigeration unit is a common mistake that can raise the water temperature well above 90°F which is ideal for bacterial colonization. Water filtration systems should be installed in areas that are kept to reasonably cool temperatures. Correct the problem with repairs, procedural changes and/or improved operation and maintenance practices. When coliform bacteria in drinking water is discovered it is recommend that the customer is notified as soon as possible and an alternate source should be used until corrective actions are completed and confirmed.

What is E.coli? E. Ccoli is a diverse group of bacteria. Most strains of E.coli are harmless, many can make you sick. Common symptoms include diarrhea, urinary tract infections, respiratory illnesses and even pneumonia.

What if my water tests positive for E. coli? E. coli in a water system indicates the possibility of fecal contamination which may pose an immediate health risk to anyone who consumes the water. The water must not be used and corrective actions and shock sanitization must be completed and confirmed prior to the water being allowed for any use. E. coli must not be taken lightly as it poses a serious potential health risk. Continued monitoring should be done and redundant approved sanitization methods should be considered. Common sanitization methods include chlorination with adequate contact time, and Ultra Violet water sterilization. The source of contamination must be determined and corrected and all plumbing equipment that is connected to this supply must be properly sanitized. After disinfection, the system must be retested at least 72 hours after the sanitizing procedure to ensure the process was successful

Sanitizing Pipes & Distribution Systems

New plumbing in commercial and residential buildings should be sanitized to kill bacteria when first put on line or if repairs or service have been performed. Shock chlorination is a common methods for sanitizing pipelines. Chlorine's powerful germicidal action reduces bacteria, molds and algae.

The threat of excessive microbial growth along the interior walls of drinking water distribution pipes is a potential health concern. Bio-fouling is the development of an organic bacterial community that is composed of microorganisms and their secretions. It is present in almost every water distribution system and when uncontrolled may present a threat to public health. The key is control. Intermittent sanitization is needed to reduce colonization.

Bio-films are layers of bacteria that attach to the interior walls of pipes and to one another. These bacterial communities trap nutrients, microbes, and waterborne pathogens and can become an almost impenetrable material. Bio-film growth begins when the plumbing system is new due to the presence of foreign material, dirt, plumbing flux, bacteria from plumbers, and environmentally introduced impurities that occur during construction and installation. Additional contamination can occur during maintenance and repair work.

It is extremely important that when a new pipeline or plumbing system is put in service or repaired, a thorough sanitizing and cleaning of the piping is completed.

Initial sanitizing by shock-chlorination:

¨ Inactivates bacteria

¨ Reduces dirt and debris in the piping system

¨ Helps to prevent against bio-film formation

Shock-chlorination:
1. A dosage of 50 to 200 ppm of free chlorine distributed throughout the piping and fixtures.
2. Confirmation of adequate chlorine residual at the fixtures and all plumbing lines. No dead-legs should be allowed as these will cross contaminate the entire plumbing system.
3. Contact time with the piping must be no less than 12 hours.
4. Confirmation of adequate chlorine residual after 12 hours.

If the chlorine residual is less than 10 ppm after 12 hours, repeat the entire procedure above. If the beginning dose is 50 to 100 ppm and the remaining residual after 12 hours is less than 10 ppm, this indicates the potential for severe bio-fouling or foreign material/contamination of some type is present.

All filter media/cartridges that can’t be sanitized must be replaced and the vessels used for the media should be adequately sanitized. Carbon filtration and other media’s that absorb rather than pass the chlorine residual through the media should be replaced or a proper and accepted sanitizing protocol must be followed.
 

Leo1

Member
Messages
32
Reaction score
2
Points
8
Location
Milwaukee
Good point. Normally a faucet is placed at the tank connection that lets you drain off rust and other sediment. It is good to turn off the pump and open that valve periodically. Seeing what comes out when you do that could help you decide how often to do that.
Does it mean that simple whole house sediment filter possibly can solve the issue with rust stains in the sink and bathtub? Or IRB is the root cause of the issue? I'm not solving the issue of drinking water right now because we use bottled water for drinking and cooking.
 

Reach4

Well-Known Member
Messages
38,858
Reaction score
4,428
Points
113
Location
IL
Does it mean that simple whole house sediment filter possibly can solve the issue with rust stains in the sink and bathtub? Or IRB is the root cause of the issue? I'm not solving the issue of drinking water right now because we use bottled water for drinking and cooking.
The thing you quoted does not address the stuff you just asked about. It just suggests getting rid of junk in the pressure tank at times.

The other stuff is more complex. I am confident a good sanitizing will be a help. How long is that good for? I don't know.

Right now you are using a softener to try to remove iron. That can work, but you are signing up for a lot of work in cleaning things up. You should do some extra cleaning. Use iron treating salt. Maybe get a Res-Up or ResClean filter.

What I don't know is the effect your IRB is having. I have never seen anybody post IRB CFU numbers before. Does the IRB sequester much of the iron as the water passes through the softener? From your results, I see that the softener is doing a fine job of softening, but is not being very effective for iron. If you knock down the IRB with a good sanitizing including lowering the pH, maybe it would make the softener able to do the job. I would suggest cleaning out your softener controller before sanitizing.

They caution about overdoing the pH lowering. At some pH (I am thinking around 4) the bleach solution gives off some chlorine. That is bad for breathing, but it could help treat "dead legs". I have not gone to that extent; going down to about 5 pH seems to work well for me. I figure that longer contact time can maybe migrate some chlorine to dead legs.

Another form of treatment to keep IRB out of your inside plumbing is to filter out particles, and follow that with a UV treatment lamp. IRB would be killed on the way to the rest of your plumbing. The filtering is to keep particles from shielding some bacteria from the UV.

Even better is to put in an effective iron treatment backwashing filter before the softener. There are other treatment possibilities.

But first I would try sanitizing. It is cheap, although it can leave your water out of action for a while.
 

Leo1

Member
Messages
32
Reaction score
2
Points
8
Location
Milwaukee
A noob question. When iron bacteria is killed will it lower (or completely eliminate) the amount of iron in the well water?
 

Reach4

Well-Known Member
Messages
38,858
Reaction score
4,428
Points
113
Location
IL
A noob question. When iron bacteria is killed will it lower (or completely eliminate) the amount of iron in the well water?
I am not sure. I am thinking that it might increase the free ferrous iron since the iron is not being taken into the bacteria. We know the iron atoms cannot disappear. But as ferrous iron, it does not stain, and it is more available to be captured by filtering and softener resin.
 
Top
Hey, wait a minute.

This is awkward, but...

It looks like you're using an ad blocker. We get it, but (1) terrylove.com can't live without ads, and (2) ad blockers can cause issues with videos and comments. If you'd like to support the site, please allow ads.

If any particular ad is your REASON for blocking ads, please let us know. We might be able to do something about it. Thanks.
I've Disabled AdBlock    No Thanks