heating vent damper install question

[corvairbob]

i had a new house put over my old raised ranch house that burned and had to be torn down. anyway they made the CS about 99% sealed tight. maybe not quite that but well over 90% as they put the sill seal over the old block wall and then set the modular house down and then went in the CS and foamed the house rims joists to the sill. i know that was 100% as i went around the house and scraped the foam from the outside that came out as it swelled.

anyway the house is now 1008 sq ft and the furnace is an upflow n95esn tempstar 95% furnace. the furnace was sized for a 2,000 sq ft house. the installer ran the furnace as a counter flow and he put 4 vents in the CS as he wanted to make sure the furnace had plenty of air flow.

so now the question the installer did not put in the dampers on the room vent runs as he wanted to move all the air as he said that furnace may be just a bit to big for the house. it was in the raised ranch and it was 1 year old and did not see the fire water or smoke the furnace guy checked it and said it was ok to reuse. but like i said because it was sized for a 2,000 sq ft home he put in the extra CS vents to let the air move better.

now the inspector wants dampers in all the vent runs even the runs that vent into the CS. so i asked for a waiver and they will not let me have one, so what do you guys think. is this a pointless venture to take the system apart to install dampers that are going to be 100% open. and because i have to install them to get permission to live in the house what may be the easy way to do this, so i do not have to take the tape the inspectors also made me put on he seams, off and take the runs apart.

what i was going to do was just drill thru the runs and put a rod thru the run and a lever on it and point it parallel to the run but my luck will be the inspector will run the furnace and then go inside to see if the run he closed is now not letting air thru. then he will make me take it all apart and reinspect it with them open so he can see every one. it is winter so i might as well do 1 run at a time.

so is there a kit that lets you install dampers in old work? i did see some but they are powered. i do not need costly dampers for something that will never be used. thanks oh! i have a cold air return question but will make another thread for that

 

[Fitter30]

Need the complete model# or btu . will be on name tag blower compartment either side.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[corvairbob]

the furnace is a tempstar n95esn o6o1714a1 s# a223164066

 

[Fitter30]

Furnace is 60,000 btu that output can be adjusted as low 45,600 @2.8" gas pressure page62
Fan delay is factory set at 25 seconds by moving a jumper can be increased to 90 seconds page 63
Fan speed looks like might be able to be slowed down

https://www.google.com/url?q=https://hvacdirect.com/media/hvac/pdf/N95ESN-Installation-Manual.pdf%3Fsrsltid%3DAfmBOopFCOfnTijwaQlDyYoFq8dq1-1QhkrjN9f0VnkGxaARpA31pWaU&sa=U&ved=2ahUKEwiMwob24--RAxUumokEHaoQHwIQFnoECAUQAg&usg=AOvVaw1j1YsYHQsmLMeMdQPHszor

 

[corvairbob]

thanks but i do not think the furnace is the issue. the thread is about vent dampers in branch runs coming from the main ducting. the inspectors are making me not only tape the seams but install dampers in the runs to the rooms. and i have the floor registers that have the dampers in them. and code tells me that should be plenty. and i asked the inspector why i had to tape the seams being that CS has 4 open register in the CS thanks but if i need to make any of those adjustments i can. the guy that installed the furnace said he can't make the furnace run at a lower btu. he had to take the furnace all apart and reconvert it from an upflow to a counter flow so i just figured he knew all of this already. the blower is a 1 speed the inducer is only a 1 speed also. thanks

 

[Fitter30]

Registers can get noisy when closed down. Furnace blower motors are never single speed cooling has a higher speed. Furnaces need more adjustments

 

[corvairbob]

my furnace blower is a mulit speed and the inducer is a single speed, but i'm not talking about noise i'm talking about the inspector telling me i have to install dampers at the main duct run, and i looked up the code and the code says i need dampers but floor registers that have doors in them can be considered dampers see insert. so i do not understand why the inspector is making me take the system apart to install dampers when i have the damper type floor registers. even the installer is puzzeled as he said the registers are the same as run dampers are.

also these photos are the blower has multiple speeds but the inducer is a single speed, installer set it up for the 1008 sq ft size of the house. anyway the furnace speeds are not the question the placement of dampers are and if you see the below insert he code says floor registers can be used for those dampers. thanks

2021 International Mechanical Code (IMC) / CHAPTER 6 / SECTION 603 / 603.18





2021 International Mechanical Code (IMC) / CHAPTER 6 / SECTION 603 / 603.18

 

[Fitter30]

my furnace blower is a mulit speed and the inducer is a single speed, but i'm not talking about noise i'm talking about the inspector telling me i have to install dampers at the main duct run, and i looked up the code and the code says i need dampers but floor registers that have doors in them can be considered dampers see insert. so i do not understand why the inspector is making me take the system apart to install dampers when i have the damper type floor registers. even the installer is puzzeled as he said the registers are the same as run dampers are.

also these photos are the blower has multiple speeds but the inducer is a single speed, installer set it up for the 1008 sq ft size of the house. anyway the furnace speeds are not the question the placement of dampers are and if you see the below insert he code says floor registers can be used for those dampers. thanks
View attachment 106898View attachment 106899
View attachment 106897





2021 International Mechanical Code (IMC) / CHAPTER 6 / SECTION 603 / 603.18





2021 International Mechanical Code (IMC) / CHAPTER 6 / SECTION 603 / 603.18

Inducer has nothing to do with the furnace blower just the burner. The blower is the heated air into the house. Heating has two speeds from the factory blue wire optional orange which is only 50 cfm less.

 

[corvairbob]

yes thanks. but your not hearing me. i asked this below yes i may be able to slow the blower down but because the furnace is a bit on the larger size for a 1000 sq ft house the installer did not slow it down he even wanted to speed it up.

i asked about dampers on the runs to the rooms. the inspector wants me to install dampers on the runs going to all the rooms and the furnace guy wants as much air moving as possible so not to burn out the heat exchanger on the furnace.
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MY ORIGINAL QUESTION
so now the question, the installer did not put in the dampers on the room vent runs as he wanted to move all the air, as he said that furnace may be just a bit to big for the house. (it was in the raised ranch and it was 1 year old and did not see the fire water or smoke the furnace guy checked it and said it was ok to reuse.) but like i said because it was sized for a 2,000 sq ft home he put in the extra Cralw Space vents to let the air move better. he put 4 in the CS.


now the inspector wants dampers in ALL the vent runs even the runs that vent into the CS. so i asked for a waiver and they will not let me have one, {so what do you guys think? } is this a pointless venture to take the system apart to install dampers that are going to be 100% open. and because i have to install them to get permission to live in the house what may be the easy way to do this, so i do not have to take the tape the inspectors also made me put on he seams, off and take the runs apart.

 

[Fitter30]

Volume dampers go in where the flex supply runs are install at the main trunk line in their take off. Blower speed can be raised to cooling fan tap. Manufacturer in the manual is not recommended but duxt system sounds like it small or not balanced but with balancing dampers would help. Why is the service guy want more air? Confused how do you get a inspection the builder all to do work and the hvac guy to do warranty work with a two year old furnace.

 

[Breplum]

None of this should be on you, the owner. The contractor should have done a load calculation to make sure the furnace would be adequate either way and is responsible for passing inspection.
Are your ducts all metal or are they insulated flex-duct? Out here we mostly use flex duct and these simple dampers but then have to use extra tape to seal leaks

If you have all metal pipe you can insert just the damper element by drilling holes.

 

[corvairbob]

None of this should be on you, the owner. The contractor should have done a load calculation to make sure the furnace would be adequate either way and is responsible for passing inspection.
Are your ducts all metal or are they insulated flex-duct? Out here we mostly use flex duct and these simple dampers but then have to use extra tape to seal leaks

If you have all metal pipe you can insert just the damper element by drilling holes.

thanks but aside from all the could have beens. the system is in we are using it and it seems to be doing what the installer wants it to do. i asked if the house registers have dampers in them is that not meeting the code?
below is what i found for dampers in the system. it seems to me this is meeting this code. also because the CS is 95% sealed or more it seems pointless to tape the seems and he put 4 vents in the CS so he is putting heated air in the CS so taping them seems pointless to me but i did because the inspector said to do it. now i can install vents because i'm here and i'm able to do it but it just seems pointless to do when they are all just going to be open. it like watering your lawn when it is raining outside.

i'm reading this code to say dampers need to be installed unless the registers have them so the volume can be controlled at the register by the register. and that provides the access.

so to put this to rest i'm just going to install them to get the code off my case. so can i install these in any good spot along the runs or do they have to go right next to the main duct? also my runs are 8" but all i see are 6" dampers will those be good enough? being they will just be open anyway? if not and you say i need to get the the same size i will take the cutouts and make dampers.

thanks for the help.

 

[corvairbob]

Volume dampers go in where the flex supply runs are install at the main trunk line in their take off. Blower speed can be raised to cooling fan tap. Manufacturer in the manual is not recommended but duxt system sounds like it small or not balanced but with balancing dampers would help. Why is the service guy want more air? Confused how do you get a inspection the builder all to do work and the hvac guy to do warranty work with a two year old furnace.

thanks i do not have the flex runs for the heat side. i do not need to change the blower speed. the furnace was sized for a 2000 sq' house and is now in a 1000 sq' house but the mfg said it will work for a 1000 sq' house. the installer wants to move all the air as he can as to not over work the heat exchanger. he has all the floor vents open and he also put 4 extra vents in the CS to move more air. this is a new house and to get the move in permit it has to be inspected. the furnace guy is not doing warranty work he installed the furnace from the old house. does that help? thanks. by the way the heating system has been approved but for those dampers and that is the question, why would i need them if all the floor vents are already open and 4 extra in the CS again thanks for the help.

 

[wwhitney]

below is what i found for dampers in the system. it seems to me this is meeting this code.

So have you politely asked the inspector in what way adding register dampers wouldn't comply with the relevant code language?

Cheers, Wayne

 

[corvairbob]

yes. i even resent the code he sent to me with the section about the registers having built in doors not being the same requirement for that code. the floor registers all have dampers on them.

for what is is worth the furnace installer stopped out this morning and he was a bit mad at that requirement. so he called 3 other heating companies and asked the owners that question and the all said they have not put dampers in heating runs for years nor have they taped the seams on the 6 or 8" room runs. they did tape the main duct runs. my guy did not do that because of the CS being tight and he has 4 registers that now to move air around, so to make the inspector happy i went and taped all the seams and connections.

 

[wwhitney]

yes. i even resent the code he sent to me with the section about the registers having built in doors not being the same requirement for that code. the floor registers all have dampers on them.

If the inspector is misinterpreting the code, what does his boss say?

If ultimately the building official (or other person who is actually the Authority Having Jurisdiction) agrees with the misinterpretation, your only options other than complying likely involve a law suit and a judge (assuming you either need them to take some action they are refusing to, like issuing a CO, or not to take some action against you, like fining you).

Cheers, Wayne

 

[corvairbob]

thanks. the installer said to call the state and let them determine if i need them. but because it is a 100$ bill to just get 13 dampers and install them and be done with it i may just do it and be done with it. the inspector is mad because we moved into the house before they gave us there blessings/ occupancy permit. i told him the insurance company stopped paying the apartment rent and i would have pay myself and i have a perfectly good brand new house to move into that meets all bet 5 codes. tape on the heating vent runs visquine over the foam insulation in the CS the back deck steps and the front stoop. all of which the builder is working on.

 

[corvairbob]

so the furnace installer just stopped out and said he talked to another inspector in this township and that inspector said i do not need those dampers as the registers already have them. so this inspector is being a nitwit. that other inspector told my installer he was going to have a chat with this inspector and get him off my case. we will see how that goes. i think what it boils down to is he can't BS me.

my other house that sat on this house's same foundation had the garage burn down to the floor and in putting out the fire for the garage and the roof the house got destroyed by all the water and insulation and over winter the freezing. anyway i got a permit for an addition so as to not have to pay triple the taxes. so this inspector came out and because they did not actually leave an 8' wall he said my permit was not valid. so i tole him the foundation he was looking at was the lower level and it was all living space. a family room bedroom and bath plus the utility room. he got mad grumbled something an drove off and now he thinks he can dig me other ways. he told me i could not move in when i did because i did not yet have gas. we had water sewer and power. i told him so what you never heard of electric heat! we had an electric water heater. so because he can't bs me he is working around what he can. like steps that are 1/2" to low and a hand rail the we do not use in the garage that did not have returns on it i took it off the wall and he is happy. and taping the heating ducts that again i found out i did not have to do. the inspector told me to file a grievance with the township over this but that is just not worth doing as then he will be watching me like a hawk for anything i may change on the house and did not get a permit for. so for now i will let this ride. thanks