Hearing water fill well

[Zaffer]

I am currently pumping my well to try and clear it and I’ve noticed something that I think is odd. I am doing the pebble test as the well pumps to keep an eye on it to make sure it doesn’t run my pump dry since my refill is 6 gpm and my pump is pumping out at about 10-11 gpm. I’ve noticed that when it lowers the water level to approx. 5-6 seconds of pebble drop time, I start hearing water entering the well. My casing is 110’ deep.

At first I thought it might be a split in the drop pipe (300’ of 160 psi poly), so I did the following:
1) Let the pump fill the pressure tank until it was full and switch broke contact
2) Switched breaker off
3) Let the system sit for 12 hours
4) Checked pressure with gauge and it was still at the same pressure, so no split as I do not have a check valve at the pressure tank, only at the well pump.

I then turned everything back on, ran the pump for 3 hours, did a drop test, it was at 9-10 seconds, and I could hear water entering the well. I turned the pump off, depressurized the system to make sure I wasn’t getting any back pressure from the pressure tank, and could still hear water. I believe this confirms there is no split in the drop line.

My concern, if it needs to be one, is that the shoe may not be sealing correctly and letting water/sediment into the well. Should this be a concern?

I just had the well drilled in late August, but decided to install the pump/pressure tank myself as the well company wanted 12-15k for this portion. Based on the above info, should I contact the well drillers or am I just overly concerned about nothing?

I appreciate all of the help on my other posts!

 

[Bannerman]

My casing is 110’ deep.

While the well maybe cased to 110', not all casings are installed to the well bottom. What is the total drilled depth?

What is the static depth?

What is the casing internal diameter?

Does your well report specify if an inlet screen was installed, & if so, at what depth?

noticed that when it lowers the water level to approx. 5-6 seconds of pebble drop time, I start hearing water entering the well.

5 seconds freefall time, will represent 122.5 metres (~ 400').

300’ of 160 psi poly

This suggests your pump is installed approx 305' below the surface?

I am doing the pebble test

Why throw rocks into the well? They maybe becoming stuck on top of the pump, or becoming wedged between the well sides and the pump, thereby making it potentially difficult or impossible to pull the pump at some point in the future. Much safer to use ice cubes.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Reach4]

Consider dropping ice cubes. Not as dense as pebbles, but won't fill the well up or jam something.

My concern, if it needs to be one, is that the shoe may not be sealing correctly and letting water/sediment into the well. Should this be a concern?

Sounds like a top-feeding well. If there was a leak at the pitless, that would be occurring before the water level dropped. A top-feeding well makes a flow inducer even a better idea than usual.

As the water level drops, the current will gradually drop. If you start sucking air it will drop more suddenly.

Measure the current with a clamp-around ammeter around one hot wire.

 

[Zaffer]

There’s no leak at the pit less. My concern is that there is maybe a leak at the shoe/bottom of the casing. If not a concern, good.

I’ll do ice cubes from now on. I read in a few places that 1 second equals about 24 feet with the drop test. If the well water level was at 400’, my pump would be sucking air, which it wasn’t and hasn’t, so far.

Total drilled well depth is 523 feet with static depth at around 60 feet. I put the pump at about 300 feet as I don’t see a need for our current water usage to go further than that.

Casing is 6” with a 4” 1-1/2 hp pump. No screen installed.

 

[Reach4]

Ice cubes will drop slower (less dense). I don't know the rate they fall at. The original post on https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/measuring-well-depth-with-an-ice-cube.66299/ gave some numbers without a source.

With a 6 inch well, there will be plenty of space for a flow inducer.

 

[Zaffer]

As for whether the well is top feeding, I don’t believe it is; I just think there is some water flowing from the top. While the well was being drilled, I kept tabs with them as they drilled (took 2 days) and they said they hit water (I assume they meant water with a decent flow rate) at 430 feet, 4 GPM. They went to 523 feet, their maximum drill depth and got the flow rate up to 6 gpm.

I am trying to clear my well, but also trying to keep my well from getting too low while also trying to keep my pump from cycling too much. I’m going to call RPS on Monday and see what they say as well, but any advice in the meantime is appreciated.

 

[Reach4]

As for whether the well is top feeding, I don’t believe it is; I just think there is some water flowing from the top.

I guess you are saying that some comes from the top, but even more comes in from below the pump, so there is not a need for a flow inducer.

but any advice in the meantime is appreciated.

Try the ammeter while you are pumping. Consider graphing current vs pumping time.

https://www.rpswaterpumps.com/products/05rps10-5gpm-1hp-submersible-pump-end-motor-starter-box is the link WWhitney posted regarding a 1 HP 5 gpm pump. But you have a 1.5 HP pump. https://www.rpswaterpumps.com/produ...motor-starter-box?_pos=1&_sid=36b82107a&_ss=r In retrospect, you would have been better off with a less powerful pump.

Do you pump up sediment now?

 

[RetiredInGueydan]

There’s no leak at the pit less. My concern is that there is maybe a leak at the shoe/bottom of the casing. If not a concern, good.

I’ll do ice cubes from now on. I read in a few places that 1 second equals about 24 feet with the drop test. If the well water level was at 400’, my pump would be sucking air, which it wasn’t and hasn’t, so far.

Total drilled well depth is 523 feet with static depth at around 60 feet. I put the pump at about 300 feet as I don’t see a need for our current water usage to go further than that.

Casing is 6” with a 4” 1-1/2 hp pump. No screen installed.

A proper grout job on the casing should prevent water infiltration from the area behind the pipe. The whole point of 413' of uncased well bore is to allow water to leak in from any available zone.

 

[Reach4]

A proper grout job on the casing should prevent water infiltration from the area behind the pipe. The whole point of 413' of uncased well bore is to allow water to leak in from any available zone.

It's not saving money by not casing the whole way?

 

[Zaffer]

I talked to one of their well design people and this pump is what was suggested with all of the info I gave him. I also told him that I might drop the pump to 400 feet if 300 feet wasn’t enough, so I guess it’s possible he sized it for that possibility? It’s also based on our house of 2-1/2 baths, 4 people, and 2 horses, though the water trough is filled as needed, usually 20-40 gallons every 3 days or so.

Either way, it’s where I am now.

As for sediment, I’m not getting anything solid, but the water is a rusty color (I assume iron). It does get better as I run the water, and it has cleared up a few times, but I’ve only been able to run it in 2-3 hour cycles. I’ve read it’s best to run it for 12-24 hours continuously at least, however given my above issues, I’m very hesitant to do so and don’t want to run it when I’m not here or asleep in case the water drops too much.

 

[Bannerman]

trying to clear my well, but also trying to keep my well from getting too low while also trying to keep my pump from cycling too much.

The recommended method to clear and develop a well, is to pull up the pump by disconnecting at the pitiless and pulling the drop pipe up above the top of the casing. This will permit the pump to operate with the least back pressure, thereby increasing the flow rate and velocity which will deliver the greatest quantity of sediment/debris to the surface and out from the well bore..

Installing a large diameter pipe to the pitiless fitting, will permit the flow and debris to be discharged some distance away from the well casing. Because the pressure switch will receive 0 pressure from the pump, the pump will continue to run continuously until switched off manually.

Total drilled well depth is 523 feet with static depth at around 60 feet.

If the pump was pulled up 5', with 300' of drop pipe, then there should be ~240' of water above the pump.

As a 6" ID casing is capable of storing approx. 1.47 gallons per foot, then there should be ~353 gallons in storage above the pump + water will be continuously refilling the well @ 6 gpm. The bore diameter below where the casing stops, will often be of a larger diameter than the casing ID, and so will be capable of storing a larger volume per foot.

Pumping a well down to a low level repeatedly during well development, will usually result in the well's recovery rate becoming increased.

To ease your concern that the well might become pumped too low, consider installing a Cycle Sensor device, which will shut off the pump if the water level becomes too low, causing the pump to begin to draw air. The Cycle Sensor (https://cyclestopvalves.com/pages/cycle-sensor-pump-monitor), is programmable to allow you to program an appropriate amount of time for well recovery before the pump's operation will be automatically restored.

water is a rusty color (I assume iron)

Suggest having a raw water sample tested by a qualified testing lab such as National Labs. A lab will provide a comprehensive report of the condition and elements in your well water, along with the level of each.

Visible iron is already in a ferric state, but deep wells typically contain substantially larger quantities of ferrous iron (aka: clear water iron) which is fully dissolved in the water and invisible. Once exposed to oxygen, ferrous iron will begin to be converted to a ferric state. Ferrous iron can't be removed by simple filtration, but must be first oxidized, often requiring iron reduction filtration media such as Katalox Light. Depending on water conditions including the quantity of ferrous iron, an additional oxidant such as air, chlorine, hydrogen peroxide or ozone, will often be utilized, to supplement the oxidation process prior to oxidation and filtration by the Katalox Light media.

Edit to add: According to Google AI, an ice cube in freefall for 5 seconds will travel a distance of approximately 122.5
meters (or about 402 feet).

 

[Zaffer]

I've been thinking about getting a cycle sensor, just wanted to see what would happen with my well first. I was hoping to be able to clear the well easily, but that doesn't seem to be the case here. I currently have a water sample at the lab and just waiting on the results. I did get the E. Coli and Chloroform results back with no E. Coli but Chloroform was present, so shocked the well again and will retest once the chlorine is cleared. Luckily we're still on the town water, so not a big deal as far as drinking water goes.

I've been trying to clear the well using the boiler drain valve with a hose connected to it, which I've read is one method, though pulling the pitless up seems to be faster, but damn is the pipe heavy with water in the line! If I do end up pulling the pitless up, I'll have to install a cycle sensor, which may not be a bad idea anyway.

When I've taken samples in the past few days, I haven't gotten any debris as I've let it settle out each time in a clean bucket, just discoloration in the water. The discoloration does seem to improve as I let the water flush, but it's not as clear as it was a early last week when I took the sample, which was clear of any color. I guess I'll continue to flush the well in hope is clears up more and look at a cycle sensor as well.

 

[Zaffer]

I ordered a cycle sensor as it will be good to have, regardless.