HB with S's drain

Discussion in 'Shower & Bathtub Forum & Blog' started by johnfrwhipple, Sep 18, 2014.

  1. ShowerDude

    ShowerDude Showers

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    Minnesota
    Forget HOH they show improper technique and product use right on TV, schluter should be ashamed !

    I cant think of a possible better TV pitch. Tile TV presents " Whipple on Bridge "..........We will accept no sponsorship from any MFG of tile related products. Roberto heads up the R&D segment, John and John go toe to toe, and Vegas commentates. We will send Jim to 70-80% of all residential homes in N.America to prove his claims he recites of that many failed showers, every week he will have to report on 5 failed showers...and since we wont let corporate sponsors $ taint the true facts/results we have a small budget, so he travels by greyhound and stays at motel 8, $25 per/diem.
     
  2. eurob

    eurob master tile and stone installer

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    So funny , RSCB . Well said , but you need to be in it . :D

    I stopped watching him a long time ago , when he '' got rid '' of his experienced crew . I didn't watch one show with him building with S products ........ still wonder why we talk about it .

    My comments were for his so constant

     
  3. johnfrwhipple

    johnfrwhipple BATHROOM DESIGN & BUILD

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    Jul 20, 2009
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    Design Work
    Location:
    North Vancouver, BC

    Can you remove a section of the Kerdi from the top? I want you to tell me what kind of glue was used to adhere it. I was expecting to find kerdi Fix White or Grey or some clear adhesive. What I found makes me think I'm seeing things.

    The drain I'm working on is new since 8 months ago. The one you have was one of the first one sold in Vacouver.

    I have a hunch...
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 23, 2016
  4. eurob

    eurob master tile and stone installer

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    JW's linear drain 001.jpg JW's linear drain 002.jpg JW's linear drain 003.jpg JW's linear drain 005.jpg JW's linear drain 007.jpg I think the one you are working on suffers the same symptoms as my tiled grate . It just lost bond to the fleece .

    Here are the photos of the drain you send me . The bond of the fleece is strong , but the glue looks similar .
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2014
  5. eurob

    eurob master tile and stone installer

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    I can't do it easily !!! I think it '' cooked '' on !

    My kerdi from the grate just slide -- '' moved '' -- off it . I peeled it all the way . You should've see my jaw !!!
     
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  6. eurob

    eurob master tile and stone installer

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    Must be the new foam tray with the Kerdi attached to them . I do not use foam tray , period .
     
  7. johnfrwhipple

    johnfrwhipple BATHROOM DESIGN & BUILD

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    So men.

    I picked up the foam with massive thin-set overlap and my spider senses tingled. The weight in my hands felt heavy for what I was holding.

    I brought them home. Weighted them and an going to wait and see if they get lighter. I think the shower started to flood in the quick flood test they did and that the thin-set is still wet.

    If I'm right the test sample will get lighter....
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 22, 2016
  8. ShowerDude

    ShowerDude Showers

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    john, the bummer of you taking this job on after someone else could not perform, is , now your name is on the line. tear it out is the only option.

    you cannot put your name on the line to save anyone a few dollars with a repair that is not viable.

    tear out and all blame shifts to the installer that the builder hired. you get paid for every drop of leaky water saved in advance of a major problem this poor homeowner is facing with a failed schluter kerdi line drain installation.

    schluter super easy showers anyone can do it .. go orange diy orange !! ra ra ra
     
  9. ShowerDude

    ShowerDude Showers

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    Minnesota
    thats 2 bad schluter kerdi line drains in one month in vancouver alone? how many worldwide?
     
  10. eurob

    eurob master tile and stone installer

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    I am a sissy at this hour ..... lol . I have to finish to watch how Canadians will beat Vancouver. :D

    But I know exactly what you are talking about. Can't find the pics with it now .
     
  11. eurob

    eurob master tile and stone installer

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    So the good absorptive mortar is getting heavier if water gets to it , right ? lol
     
  12. eurob

    eurob master tile and stone installer

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    Here is the clear adhesive ..... like I said it is well stuck .

    JW's linear drain Update 002.jpg JW's linear drain Update 004.jpg


    The adhesive on my grate was thick and brownish in color . The kerdi just slide off and later I did peel off like a masking tape .
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2014
  13. johnfrwhipple

    johnfrwhipple BATHROOM DESIGN & BUILD

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    Two in two months RSCB - Lets not blow this out of proportion.

    The kicker is that the Kerdi Line drain I bought a year or so back ( the one picture above in Roberto's pictures) is made different that the new one I'm working on. And i think the changes are scary.

    I'm pretty sure that metal moves when it heats up. I think most showers use hot water.

    I wonder how that construction adhesive will last when put to the stresses of thermal expansion.

    I wonder what the blow hards would say on John Bridge if you asked them what kind of glue it is? lol Show them my video! lol
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 22, 2016
  14. johnfrwhipple

    johnfrwhipple BATHROOM DESIGN & BUILD

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    Now men.

    About this testing.

    Is it me or is this the fourth issue us three have spotted in the past two months?

    Who got the memo from Schluter about them changing the glue out? I did not......

    RSCB did you see a memo?

    Roberto any flyers at your place of shopping?

    I wonder if Ardex knows? What if they tested their products with the old drain? Well what a pickle.

    And yet another reason why I love the ACO drain. You use any waterproofing system. You can check it first. Then install the drain.....
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 23, 2016
  15. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

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    New England
    You guys don't believe that 70-80% of the showers built are not built properly? Seems like a good example of a pro that didn't have a clue - common definition of a pro is someone who gets paid to do a job. Products work if installed properly. It isn't really hard, but it is very detail oriented. If you don't understand how to do it, you shouldn't use the product. Training and experience helps, but the learning curve isn't really that steep IF you have an idea of how it's supposed to be done in the first place. MOst manufacturers offer good info and instructions, some offer extensive videos, but there are an awful lot of people that just think they know better, and then, get it wrong.

    The preformed pan requires the surface to be level first - trying to level it with thinset underneath is not allowed or likely successful. The instructions also call for a specific sized trowel, that obviously was not used, either. Maybe the wrong thinset as well, and glues just aren't used to set the pan. The right thinset, mixed properly, after the timeline involved should tear all or at least most of the fleece off in the process of tearing it off the surface. That bond is only required to be at least 50psi in shear. But, lifting and pulling the edge while doubled-back on itself acts like a long lever, with all of the force applied on a VERY thin line, very different than trying to lift it straight off.
     
  16. johnfrwhipple

    johnfrwhipple BATHROOM DESIGN & BUILD

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    Thanks Roberto. After finding the foam. Finding an improper slope. I assume the installer was totally out to lunch. This is not a tub surround but a highly detailed steam shower. Ball Park $40,000 job (total fixtures, tile, work, skylight, yatata). I was not going to trust the originally work at all.

    Like patching drywall. Shower waterproofing is not that hard to seam and patch. So - why not look at the key points.

    Actually tightening the gear clamp is not a basic step. Or a new step. it's required to keep the water in the shower's pipes. Had I left this shower as is and Kerdi the rest of the thing the shower would have surely failed.

    I have rebuild so much all ready. Re screwed so much work. Added lumber. And use a much better vapour proofing system.

    The Kerdi Line drain has a stamp that says light duty. Once I'm done with it it will be rated for Heavy duty. You can stand on it with out fear of the foam depressing. The one thing I like about what the installer choose to do was skip the foam gasket under the Kerdi Line dray and use what I think was Topecem..... So he got one step right in my play book. Had he prepped the drain like me he would not have been able to pop it off. So in hind sight I'm glad he screwed up so bad.

    Heading out today to fix the slope.

    Who builds a steam shower or any shower these days with a 1% slope?

     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 23, 2016
  17. eurob

    eurob master tile and stone installer

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    These videos just prove and show how dedicated installers and '' Making it perfect '' mentality is all about !!!

    Great job John ! I knew you can do it , not only talk about it !:)
     
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  18. eurob

    eurob master tile and stone installer

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    Looking good John .

    The video is quite fast to see the mesh ....here is another example

    Floor prepping -- covered with reinforcement mesh.jpg Floor prepping -- covered with reinforcement mesh 1.jpg
     
  19. ShowerDude

    ShowerDude Showers

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    Apr 7, 2014
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Roberto, that hallway looks familiar? repeat clients? Nice embedding/skim work ..

    Marshalltown....the only way to go.!!!
     
  20. ShowerDude

    ShowerDude Showers

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    Apr 7, 2014
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Who would wear overalls in lieu of a suit to their desk job? mistake you as a working mans man? LOL.

    Nice save for your clients master steam room and help the builder save some face John. Credit due, even if you went against your policy and used a bunch of orange stuff you had sworn off!!! I forgive you.

    Sometimes it can come down to having to drive an hour to buy the preferred materials and I end up using K corners too.!

    Bangin shit out !
     
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