HB with S's drain

Discussion in 'Shower & Bathtub Forum & Blog' started by johnfrwhipple, Sep 18, 2014.

  1. ShowerDude

    ShowerDude Showers

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    Just texted Tom my aco rep. See what he knows about about the aco tiletop point drain in USA markets.
     
  2. eurob

    eurob master tile and stone installer

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    I also try to adjust and learn the so much changing terminologies of the new or existant products -- not anymore regular ( or just ) shower drains but point drains -- ......... thanks for adding the distinction for a tile top vs. tile in drain .............



    I wonder how this drain is called ....... I sure like the looks and how neat is installed .


    photo.JPG
     
  3. ShowerDude

    ShowerDude Showers

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    ACO texted me in about 3 hrs and followed with a call within 15 hrs.

    The tile top point drain is obtainable in US.

    Tom Tiernan the midwest rep. Nice guy.
     
  4. ShowerDude

    ShowerDude Showers

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    Cool you deserve some props from ACO John good for you....
     
  5. eurob

    eurob master tile and stone installer

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    That will be fun to tie in .

    Is the skylight rated for the application at hand ?
     
  6. ShowerDude

    ShowerDude Showers

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    tempered glass skylight!!!!


    pretty sure youll re flood after your prep work..... it says in your catch phrase "test every shower EVERY time" !!!!!!!!!

    sounds like a cool project, one you will be watched closely on by the homeowner and builder likely!!!
     
  7. eurob

    eurob master tile and stone installer

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    He will have the microscope in ___ ___ !!!

    I thing the skylight is not recommended in a steamer -- something to do with the steam temperature -- .

    More of those slip joints !!!

    Nice projects you have there , John !
     
  8. eurob

    eurob master tile and stone installer

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    You can't win the argument -- they all do it for so many years , '' without problems '' :eek:- ......... I wonder if they respond to the calls in case it all goes bad . Never seen anyone question it -- their approach -- .

    Did they ever think of application -- roof ceiling -- and the extreme environments the ceiling will see -- steam on one side and cold zone on the other --? What will happen if the roof is leaking -- all that tile on it will go somewhere --- .;)
     
  9. ShowerDude

    ShowerDude Showers

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    Minnesota
    John,

    Ive searched and cannot find a sealed slip joint detail. I think the TCNA and NOBLE has pretty much set that spec. as far as I can tell, no-one else references it.

    Now if you do install Hydro membrane and utilize the sealed slip joint you probobly are voiding your wrrty. with "L" company, and CBP boarding specs.

    ???? Is it by design they have not included or referenced this detail on their spec sheets? You will surely find this out when a problem arises and the "L" company needs an opt out of any possible wrrty. claim.


    CRUX:? The crux is we want to build better/smarter and since the TCNA calls for a sealed slip joint and acts as the gods of how we should tile , we want to follow that guidance......... you are now in a pickle....what to do????


    Pros: ? The pros are John knows exactly how to achieve a sealed slip joint and is one of few that has ever installed one. He knows from experience now that if done right its a smart detail and may soon be mandatory for all steam showers....

    Everyday the installer in the field must adapt to the surroundings and myriad of differences that are NEVER present when these MFG test their products in a lab setting. We have to get the job done and cover our but while installing.


    There is another man on this site that does not build showers and has not been building showers for decades. He sits in his lab and reads the latest claims and takes the side of MFG, big business, and is still relying on the government to tell him how to live.

    His constant referring to Literature is not applicable in the real world job site the majority of the time. He is indeed a dying breed of old thinking stuck in a tube of governing bodies telling him how and when to breathe.


    all while the Tile pros get the job done and feed their family, while navigating an ever confusing mess of claims and directives from a myriad of MFG rules.

    End rant. (for now)

     
  10. eurob

    eurob master tile and stone installer

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    I really hope the skylight will hold the steam '' attack '' .

    Have any pictures of it ?
     
  11. eurob

    eurob master tile and stone installer

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    Very good call , John . As always . :)
     
  12. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

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    When using any of the membrane banding products (as in Kerdiband or Hydroban's material), this is an ADDITIONAL layer to the already butted up full thickness sheets beneath it, so, if the main membrane meets the perm rating, the banding shouldn't be an issue at all and should actually add to it.

    I don't understand why John rips Hydroban's banding material for being thicker than Kerdi and affecting a nice corner with buildup when he LOVES NobleTS, which is over 3x thicker...talk about buildup in a corner. Talk about having your cake and eating it too - double-standards appearing here.

    Does the elastic rubber on the pipe sealers count as a slip joint? I would think so, but you'd have to ask the manufacturer to be sure. The hole in them is purposely smaller than the OD of the pipe so you get some compression, and because of the material, the pipe is free to expand and contract to allow for that slip.
     
  13. eurob

    eurob master tile and stone installer

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    Hey guys , if you want to talk without the ignored one , we can start a conversation .

    We don't need an S man or his angle on this .

    It seems that he doesn't understand more than the KA at the S . To make it worse , he is going to seminars for more . Wonder why -- a retiree -- they will give him access to internal data .

    Who knows ? All you need is a connection , the rest he will tell you all about , no hands on experience .

    Stay out of it -- we don't care about the S angle or yours .

    Start your own threads and preach the methods you learn , but never use . Good luck .
     
  14. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

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    You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink...there's lots of knowledge out there, and these guys seem to just discount some that may come their way, however attained. I learn far more here and elsewhere on the internet than I provide, but I try to provide information that is correct, and will work all of the time. SOme of the stuff these guys preach will only work under special circumstances and under special conditions. But, as in putting tiled things on dimensional lumber, the industry says do not do it for very good reasons. Some of the effects and ramifications show up very fast, but some of them can take years. The goal with building these things is to have it viable until you decide you don't like it any more...not have to replace it because it fails. This can literally take may years, as in one hospital floor lobby that was discussed in today's workshop - it took 10-years, and catastrophically failed. Or, another lobby in a new hospital that failed in a month after the installer, GC, engineer all told them it would not work, but the owner signed off saying they didn't like the look if the proper movement joints had to be installed.

    There's a reason for everything in the TCNA guidelines, and yes, they get adjusted over the years as experience dictates, but this is from thousands of observations across most of North America, the manufacturers coming up with new products, new materials being developed, etc. No one person can ever have the group knowledge or experience...but, since I have the time to gather some from these industry leaders that have a vested interest in things working and am willing to share it, these guys get all bent out of shape when they either don't understand, or their limited experience when compared to that derived from thousands of long-term professionals, conflicts with their knowledge.
     
  15. eurob

    eurob master tile and stone installer

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    You have to understand that , the rules-- only recommendations -- set by the industry are trashed on real life situations . If you work on them -- real situations -- you would understand .

    We have to find ways to make it work -- in between -- which are not listed in any guideline or recommendation and sometimes we share more than we should . Sometimes it sounds '' incorrect '' to an untrained person .

    If you want to share your opinion , do so , but not over and over and over the same comments about industry says this , industry says that .
     
  16. ShowerDude

    ShowerDude Showers

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    Roberto, isn't every job we do in a different home/environment?

    every job is special circumstance? no? not a lab with aligned tools and controlled environs?

    i wonder if this seminar atendee can produce a reciept for his pre-purchased admission to the seminar?

    if i was a mfg of product, i would play him like a fiddle too.....
     
  17. eurob

    eurob master tile and stone installer

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    Yeah , RSCB . The jobs are different in approach , setting conditions , time frame -- usually way off the recommendations -- , and many more .

    If going to a seminar and setting few tiles or samples with a specific product would give you a hands on experience than I can call myself an architect 'cause I know how to make a drawing .

    It is all good in theory , but application of it in the field is challenging . Combined with so constant pouring of technical documentations , specifications , recommendations -- updating and constantly changing -- , it is becoming a complex task of never ending avenues of reinventing the wheel .
     
  18. eurob

    eurob master tile and stone installer

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    Does it look like this one ?

    Skylight on flat roof.jpg
     
  19. eurob

    eurob master tile and stone installer

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    Does it have a wood box to sit on ?

    It has no glass , right ?
     
  20. eurob

    eurob master tile and stone installer

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    It looks like you got some customer service pronto there Sir .

    Now , you will have to show your new membrane without the logos -- like an outlaw -- ..... Cowboy style .:)
     
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