Guidance on installing a CSV into an existing well system

Discussion in 'Pumps and Tanks Well Forum & Blog. Water is life.' started by Sarg, Nov 18, 2020.

  1. Sarg

    Sarg Enjoy Learning

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    Got everything ready to replace the pictured system I put into the house in 2006. This time I'm putting in a 10" shorter Rheem heater with a 20 gal. Dayton steel pressure tank. I've acquired all new attachments for the Dayton tank and the "T" piping from the tank will be very similar to the picture .... with the exception of moving the turn off ball valve on the pictured right side from vertical to horizontal (attached directly to the T with the elbow moved to the right side). I've been reading all the benefits of a CSV valve in such a system.
    Looking at the schematics on the cyclestopvalve.com website it appears like I could "simply" replace the check valve position on the left side with a CSV2W valve onto the tank "T" and then attach the check valve with a short 1" nipple to the CSV ( before the well input piping on the left side).
    Hoping then I could set the CSV at about a constant 45 psi. I do not want to exceed the 50 psi because of my poly-B piping.
    Is this feasible and is the CSV2W the appropriate valve ?

    W Heater.JPG
     
  2. valveman

    valveman Cary Austin Staff Member

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    You probably need the CSV1A instead. What size pump do you have? You can install the CSV1A in place of that check valve as the check valve needs to be removed anyway. Or you can install the CSV1A anywhere in that 1" poly pipe coming up to the tank from the pump side. Setting the CSV1A at 45 PSI to use with that size tank and a 30/50 switch is correct, and that is all the pressure the house pipe will see. However, you will have a hundred PSI or so (depending on the pump size) on the pipe before the CSV1A, but it looks like 160# pipe and you will be fine.
     
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  4. Sarg

    Sarg Enjoy Learning

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    Just found the p/w on the well & pump that was replaced in 1992 ..... 3/4 hp Myers pump set down at about 125 feet in a 215 foot deep hole. ( We started in 1979 with a 86 foot well and 7.5 gal. per minute ...... then they put an interstate through in our back yard ... we lost over 2 acres of land and the well all but died. In 92 we drilled down 215 feet and still only got 1 gpm. )
    And just to clarify ... the check valve should always be on the pump side of "everything" else.... correct ?
     
  5. valveman

    valveman Cary Austin Staff Member

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    A 3/4 sub motor can have a 5, 7, or a 10 GPM pump end on it? Most likely a 7 or 10, so should be fine, and the CSV1A would be correct. The check valve needs to be ON the discharge of the submersible pump. You don't want any extra check valves anywhere else in the line.
     
  6. Sarg

    Sarg Enjoy Learning

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    The itemized bill from 1992 does not include a check valve so I have to assume the one at the tank is the only one on the system. Thank you for your guidance.
     
  7. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

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    You understand that you want that gone or gutted. There is a check valve at or in the pump.
     
  8. valveman

    valveman Cary Austin Staff Member

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    What Reach said! There may not be one on the bill, but you have an extra one anyway.
     
  9. Sarg

    Sarg Enjoy Learning

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    OK... Now I'm confused again. Would your recommendation .... looking at the current set-up ..... be to replace the check valve with the CSV ? I've always thought the check valve is what retained the water within the pressure tank ? Does that infer the CSV also has a one way valve ?
    Is it common practice to have the check valve at the pump and that holds water within the total 100 + feet of pipe ?
    Please explain the consequences of the check valve at the tank .... it's been that way for over 40 years. Will it interfere with the CSV operation ?
    Every schematic I find on the internet shows a check valve in front of the pressure tank ...... is diminished flow through the valve the issue ?

    From Google :
    Many well pumps have built-in check valves. Even if a pump does have a built-in check valve, we recommend that a check valve be installed in the discharge line within 25 feet of the pump and below the draw down level of the water supply. ... It should be properly sized to meet the pump's flow and pressure conditions.Jan 16, 2019
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2020
  10. valveman

    valveman Cary Austin Staff Member

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    There must be a check valve down on the pump or the system will not work. That extra check valve at the tank has been causing problems for 40 years, you just haven't seen them. Extra check valves cause water hammer. Even if you cannot hear or feel water hammer, it is pounding on pipes and valves with every on/off cycle of the pump. When the water hammer gets bad enough to hear or feel is when most people figure out they never needed that extra check valve that is causing all the problems. The check valve on the pump will work even better with the extra pressure holding it closed.
     
  11. Sarg

    Sarg Enjoy Learning

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    Valveman .. I just found one of your posts from 3/15/06 on check valves ..... very informative ..... thank you.
    You guys have no idea how much I appreciate your guidance & knowledge.
     
  12. valveman

    valveman Cary Austin Staff Member

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  13. Sarg

    Sarg Enjoy Learning

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    Mr. Austin .... I just realized who you are. Many thanks for your time. Ordering the CSV1A.
     
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  14. Sarg

    Sarg Enjoy Learning

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    The new set-up on a Dayton tank

    IMG_0467.JPG
     
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  15. Sarg

    Sarg Enjoy Learning

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    Almost complete with only one leak noted so far. Just working on getting the CSV set where I want and very small adjustments in the Square D switch. The switch was not set at 30-50 out of the box so I'm carefully moving the range up a tad.

    Now tomorrow I have to drain the pressure tank and pull it out far enough to remove the feed pipe ... take off the CSV and reassemble .... this time I'll do about 6 or seven wraps of the .0035 mill Teflon tape. The issue is the valve is too tall to rotate without hitting the shelf the tank is on. What I initially thought was condensation is just a fitting not tight enough.

    In the total scheme of things I should be glad that's my only problem.


    IMG_0178.JPG
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2020
  16. valveman

    valveman Cary Austin Staff Member

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    Stainless threads are just hard to make seal. Use Teflon tape with pipe dope over the tape. Also, you can unscrew the red cap from the CSV1A and you maybe able to spin it in place.
     
  17. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

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    You can move the more if you like. 3.5 turns on the nut on the big spring is about 10 psi. Then raise your air precharge too. Up to you. I am set to 38/58 psi on purpose. Not that I need it, but I got a really good deal on a nice 0..60 psi pressure gauge.

    Too bad your tank tee doesn't have a union, so you could have pulled away from the pressure tank. I guess that would be another place for a potential leak.

    I presume you will disconnect the top of the black pipe before twisting the body of the CSV1A.

    I went from just tape which leaked to putting pipe dope over and under the tape. Not common, but I wanted to be extra-sure. Since that was into a plastic filter housing, I did not want to just use more torque.
     
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